Kind of begs the question 'so what is the point of the EU'? If you ever find yourself in the situation where you are seriously contemplating self harm in order to damage someone else you're probably on the wrong side of the argument.
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So Michel Barnier has today been somewhat softening the EU stance and trying to calm down any fractious feelings following the shitty behaviour of the EU representatives in leaking details of the Downing St meeting. It is amazing how some on here jumped all over May for her speech in reaction to that leaking - cause and effect - they caused it.
But anyway, moving on, we now see Barnier trying to build fences and also today Tusk has been meeting representatives of the 27 to debate the negotiations and has said:
"It is clear that a free trade agreement between the EU and the UK, which is what the UK has chosen, even if it is ambitious and wide-ranging, cannot mean participation in the Single Market or its parts.
And at the same time, the UK must be aware that any free trade agreement will have to ensure a level playing field, and encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices."
Superficially, these comments might seem aggressive and some on here that will read them that way and will take comfort from them - but when you look below the surface and compare his statements to the position of the EU and Tusk as an individual a few months ago - there does seem to be the start of acceptance from the EU that we are leaving and they will have to start on the establishment of an FTA - and we have not played our trump cards yet.
Something must have happened in recent months and be taking place in the coming months that have forced them to start to realise that we are actually going to leave and they are going to actually have to deal with it - in a manner different from the high-handed style they normally deal with 'supplicants' such as Greece, Ireland etc.
But anyway, moving on, we now see Barnier trying to build fences and also today Tusk has been meeting representatives of the 27 to debate the negotiations and has said:
"It is clear that a free trade agreement between the EU and the UK, which is what the UK has chosen, even if it is ambitious and wide-ranging, cannot mean participation in the Single Market or its parts.
And at the same time, the UK must be aware that any free trade agreement will have to ensure a level playing field, and encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices."
Superficially, these comments might seem aggressive and some on here that will read them that way and will take comfort from them - but when you look below the surface and compare his statements to the position of the EU and Tusk as an individual a few months ago - there does seem to be the start of acceptance from the EU that we are leaving and they will have to start on the establishment of an FTA - and we have not played our trump cards yet.
Something must have happened in recent months and be taking place in the coming months that have forced them to start to realise that we are actually going to leave and they are going to actually have to deal with it - in a manner different from the high-handed style they normally deal with 'supplicants' such as Greece, Ireland etc.
Metal Biker
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They simply refuse to entertain the idea that there are better options available than being a member of the EU.
They believe in the EU so blindly that it has become almost a cultist thought amongst the pro-EU lobby that the EU model is the be-all-end-all of civilisation, progress and prosperity. We've suggested there is another way and we're going to try it which to them is a rejection of the European model. We don't want to see Europe fail, we just disagree with the way the EU believes a prosperous and fair Europe can be achieved.
Some more evidence - admittedly from how I tend to consider things - that the EU are starting to wake up and realise that the UK actually are leaving and they will have to now take the situation seriously and not just hope the problem goes away.
Merkel starting to get 'exercised':
"The UK will “pay a price” if it moves to restrict EU immigration after Brexit, Angela Merkel said on Wednesday.
In some of her toughest language on Brexit yet, the German chancellor warned that the EU would act to protect its own interests and could create “obstacles” for Britain.
And in a barely veiled threat, she said there could be consequences for the British car industry.
“If the British government ends the free movement of people, that will have its price in relations with Britain,” Mrs Merkel told a meeting of trade union officials in Berlin.
“That's not malicious,” she said. “But you cannot expect to enjoy all the benefits and then say there will be an upper limit of 100,000 or 200,000 EU citizens, no more, or we’ll only accept researchers, but nobody else. This will not work.”
“We would have to think about what restrictions we could create from the European side to compensate for that,” she said.
“The British car industry relies on supplies from continental European countries. It is up to the British side, who say they want minimum disruption,” she said.
There could even be consequences for British pets, she said. “Currently, the 250,000 pets, cats and dogs, that travel from Britain to the continent or the other way each year are managed within an EU framework,” she said. “Now they'll need hygiene certificates: things we don't even remember.”
The German chancellor was speaking at a meeting of European trade union leaders held under the auspices of Germany’s G20 presidency."
I know some will throw their skirts over their heads and run around screaming 'oh woe is me' - the UK are doomed, but I see this differently. For me it is more a sign that they are at last getting it. They are recognising that they can not just ignore the situation and wait for it all to blow over after they have played hard ball for a couple of years and we have ended up Remaining,
The game's afoot - interesting times ahead
Merkel starting to get 'exercised':
"The UK will “pay a price” if it moves to restrict EU immigration after Brexit, Angela Merkel said on Wednesday.
In some of her toughest language on Brexit yet, the German chancellor warned that the EU would act to protect its own interests and could create “obstacles” for Britain.
And in a barely veiled threat, she said there could be consequences for the British car industry.
“If the British government ends the free movement of people, that will have its price in relations with Britain,” Mrs Merkel told a meeting of trade union officials in Berlin.
“That's not malicious,” she said. “But you cannot expect to enjoy all the benefits and then say there will be an upper limit of 100,000 or 200,000 EU citizens, no more, or we’ll only accept researchers, but nobody else. This will not work.”
“We would have to think about what restrictions we could create from the European side to compensate for that,” she said.
“The British car industry relies on supplies from continental European countries. It is up to the British side, who say they want minimum disruption,” she said.
There could even be consequences for British pets, she said. “Currently, the 250,000 pets, cats and dogs, that travel from Britain to the continent or the other way each year are managed within an EU framework,” she said. “Now they'll need hygiene certificates: things we don't even remember.”
The German chancellor was speaking at a meeting of European trade union leaders held under the auspices of Germany’s G20 presidency."
I know some will throw their skirts over their heads and run around screaming 'oh woe is me' - the UK are doomed, but I see this differently. For me it is more a sign that they are at last getting it. They are recognising that they can not just ignore the situation and wait for it all to blow over after they have played hard ball for a couple of years and we have ended up Remaining,
The game's afoot - interesting times ahead
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
none of which looks promising for the UK - I thought German car makers had Merkel by the short hairs and so that they could keep selling us 3 - series she was going to persuade the rest of the EU to let it be business as usual just we didn't have to let anyone in we didn't ant to, no tarriffs, free trade and no contributions. Instead they are going to bar our pets from going to France the bastards - next thing you know there will be no extra £350m per week going to the NHS
The perfect fumble
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The mind boggles! All the noise from across the Channel is universally negative.
Your interpretation...Well, at least they've accepted we're leaving.
Are you ever tempted to stab yourself in your right eye in celebration of how wonderful your left eye is?
The perfect fumble
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Democracy in action....
City financier Jeremy Hosking has pledged to spend up to £700,000 on ousting Labour MPs who campaigned against Brexit.
And off the cliff we go, with the blind leading the clueless.
City financier Jeremy Hosking has pledged to spend up to £700,000 on ousting Labour MPs who campaigned against Brexit.
And off the cliff we go, with the blind leading the clueless.
I am not surprised that you are unable to read those messages from Markel and see anything beyond the 'threat'
You only see things through the blinkering caused by your view that the EU (especially Merkel) is all powerful and the UK weak.
When a senior UK politician makes a comment that sounds robust in favour of the UK you rubbish it – and when a senior EU figure speaks robustly against the UK you lap it up
From a negotiator POV it is interesting to see a senior figure like Merkel increasingly feeling the need to start directly intervening – it speaks to the reducing level to which they feel that they have full control and the UK will just have to fall in line.
For those that look beyond the obvious, you can sense an increasing level of anxiety across the EU position about the extent to which they are losing control.
If you can a) gain a level of acceptance in your mind that we are leaving, b) act to assess things from the viewpoint of what is best for the UK and c) have a capability for analysis and strategic thinking – then such developments have interesting undertones
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Democracy in action....
City financier Jeremy Hosking has pledged to spend up to £700,000 on ousting Labour MPs who campaigned against Brexit.
And off the cliff we go, with the blind leading the clueless.
Because this offends you and because you are so balanced you will probably have already posted about how this is happening elsewhere – what page was that on?
GINA MILLER is launching a tactical voting initiative next week that will support candidates in the forthcoming general election who oppose hard Brexit
http://www.vogue.co.uk/article/gina...l-voting-initiative-best-for-britain-election
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Ancient Citizen
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This character is totally and utterly determined to try to reverse the democratic decision taken
by the electorate last year, unfortunately for her, her last attempt at trying to coerce parliament merely
strengthened the governments hand, and it's now come down to this frantic, desperate, pathetic display.
She's going to have to mobilise her insurgents to exceptional levels to attempt to influence results to the extent that
would affect an election, and I can't fucking wait to see her smug chops come June 9.
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