Donald Trump

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John Oliver made a salient point...

"Nazis are a lot like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them."
 
I'm obviously not aware of every statue in the world, but is there really any precedent for statues of people to remind people to not let things happen again? Generally that sounds like a memorial and they are always in honour of the victims, not statues of the culprit. It's a very strange argument/excuse that people seem to be making. Statues are almost always to celebrate a person aren't they? Really can't think of many of these "warning statues" that people seem to be trying to argue this is

Isn't that what these statues were THEN, as opposed to what they are seen as NOW?
They were put up by those partisan to their actions who wanted heroes in their eyes to be remembered.

If anyone equated them to building them now, or to commemorate what they stood for, it would be a different logic.

Putting them in a museum would (to my mind) be preferable to destruction, but would need to be done carefully so as not to create a shrine.
 
Get it correct
It is pc to tear down statues of historical figures at random

There are many people from erstwhile colonies in the UK
Should we tear down all statues to churchill, Nelson, Wellington, Clive?

Seems to me to be a non sequitur.

The American Civil War was fought over slavery, wasn't it?

Nelson's statue is naff all to do with anything other than beating the French and defending the country from invasion.
Wellington the same - probably not a nice bloke, but a military hero.
Churchill - nothing's promoting his opinions on anything - he was PM and driving force behind the country during the war.

None of those last 3 relate to any politics other than there being wars, and wars which were not fought for defence of the nation.
 
Isn't that what these statues were THEN, as opposed to what they are seen as NOW?
They were put up by those partisan to their actions who wanted heroes in their eyes to be remembered.

If anyone equated them to building them now, or to commemorate what they stood for, it would be a different logic.

Putting them in a museum would (to my mind) be preferable to destruction, but would need to be done carefully so as not to create a shrine.
That argument would hold a lot more weight if the statue wasn't made in 1924. Ironically Lee himself didn't want monuments made of him because he wanted the country to move on, but then white supremacists and the KKK made him a champion long after his death and built the statue
 
That argument would hold a lot more weight if the statue wasn't made in 1924. Ironically Lee himself didn't want monuments made of him because he wanted the country to move on, but then white supremacists and the KKK made him a champion long after his death and built the statue

I saw that afterwards, but it's still THEN vs NOW, whatever the timeframe. 1924 is still THEN, and from what I know, the USA wasn't exactly tolerant then. Didn't someone claim that it was around the time of an upsurge in southern discontent? I don't know about that - one for the American historians!

Also, fifty years is not that much in grand political opinion.
 
I read the transcript. You're right. In fact she even called out those "desperate for change" as half of his base. She also said "we need to understand and empathize" with them too. Clearly there was a perception that she couldn't, wouldn't or didn't.

It's a good lesson in context and paying closer attention for me.

However, I still don't think that politically it made sense to say it, however she felt. Indeed some of Trump's supporters wear it like a badge of honor (as City fans wear . . . or, rather, wore ridicule as badge of honor even :)).

For what it's worth, I voted for her because (among other reasons) I knew exactly what Trump is, and have known for nearly two decades. I would have voted for Kacich had he won the Rep nomination.
I've never understood how things get taken out of context so easily in the age we live in. All you have to do is look something up and verify it. Common sense tells me that there's no way HRC would have ever said that Dumb Donald's supporters are deplorable. It's all part of the right-wing smear machine she's talked about for years, people who live in that bubble are so easily manipulated because they either don't have any other sources of information or they don't believe anything they hear unless it comes from inside the bubble.

Another classic is the "I invented the internet" comment attributed to Al Gore. I'd say 99% of republicans believe he said it but in reality he never said anything close to it. What he did say was something about supporting legislation that lead to the development of the internet. The guy lost by something like 100 votes in Florida. What if the people down there actually knew the facts? Would it have swayed a few votes from either W or Nader? If Gore had won we almost certainly wouldn't have invaded Iraq which means that it's likely there would be no ISIS today (so all of their terrorist attacks would never have happened). It's also possible that we may have avoided 9/11 altogether since W's administration chose to ignore al Qaeda and focus on the Russians.

There are consequences to being uninformed, major consequences.
 
Correct.... but party views change.
Yes they do, but seeing as Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist until the war was virtually won, did not want black jury members,
and was no promoter of equality, until much later in his career, maybe they should start ripping down his statues.
After all, racists are racists, right?
 
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