Var debate 2019/20

[SVP]

Calm Down, Calm Down

eh eh eh

 

[Rammy Blue]

I was wondering today, and thought this would be the best place to ask, but do we have any guys on here who watch lots of other European leagues’ football and could enlighten me/us with how the offside rule is being dealt with by VAR - do they have the daft lines being drawn and use the armpit rule etc etc.

 

[Paladin]

Cheers mate! That is truly a brilliant answer, and judging by some of the responses I have gotten today, maybe more than I deserve lol

Firstly, I was totally unaware of this. I was absolutely positive the letter of the law had been changed to disallow every goal with a handball, intentional or unintentional, in the build up. This is why I have been vocal about criticising the law, and not VAR for enforcing it. Now, you will of course find me in total agreement. The definition of the law that you have linked to here, is something I agree with entirely. And considering what they have done is by definition bending the laws, or even ignoring it, I of course agree that this needs to be questioned.

What I won't change my mind on though, and tbf you haven't argued with me on that point either, is linking this bending of the law to make a argument for obvious corruption. That is what I have mostly taken issue with. If this kind of selective interpretation of the law was restricted to only us, sure, but it has been the narrative for the whole league. As I said it has been consistently bad, but it has been consistent. Consistently wrong perhaps is a better phrase now. But, still I disagree with the notion that it has been used consistently wrong against us and only us.

Anyway, thanks for the informative post and cheers for the compliment:)

My own opinion is that it is not deliberately against City, but it is deliberately favouring certain teams. I think Liverpool and to a lesser extent Spurs are the main beneficiaries this season. Everyone else suffers at some point. Both these clubs are considered big clubs, and neither has won the PL.

This is in keeping with the narrative that someone at the PL said that they wanted a new winner of the PL every few years. Also that a strong Manchester United is good for the brand. It tells me that the footballing authorities are prepared to favour certain teams because it will ultimately increase their revenues. And when businesses have the opportunity to manipulate the rules in order to increase their revenues, they have been known to succumb to this temptation.

We have seen this corruption at UEFA, FIFA, in Italian football, other leagues, and plenty of other sports. I think there is a real possibility that we are witnessing it here this season. (For what it's worth, last season also, but City were just too good for it to deliver the desired outcome).

Implementing their objectives doesn't even have to be by direct instruction. It can be achieved by subtle means. For example by appointing a referee with favourable tendencies towards a desired club could skew the outcome of certain games. Let's take for instance Michael Oliver, who is one of our top referees. He has refereed a number of City games including City v Spurs, where we lost two points. Also Liverpool v City, where a number of marginal decisions went against City. He has also officiated some Liverpool games, where they benefited from a number of close decisions. Or consider Anthony Taylor, who comes from a family of United fans, even though he claims to be an Altrincham fan. You would not be surprised to see a bias in favour of United from Taylor, not necessarily because of any unprofessionalism on his part, but maybe subliminally, he tends to make decisions that would satisfy his relatives. Oliver has relatives that are Liverpool fans incidentally.

 

[BlueHammer85]

You don’t just see thinks different to me you make stuff up , you lie to suit your pathetic defence of var compared with the old system , a system that by & large did a good job for 150 years .
Var was brought in by the premier league so they can have a hand in who wins & who doesn’t ......its killed the flow of the game & the celebration of goals is now stunted while we wait for a decision from some so called expert miles away , enjoy your ‘new ‘ football but there’ll be thousands like me who fuck it off, but you’ll be right won’t you.

lie ? Seriously. What have I lied about ???

‘‘the old system that by and large did a good job’’

Wow. So you were ok with refs giving pens to Liverpool last season when Salah was diving, you were happy with the old system of Man Utd and the rest scoring goals offside ? Because obviously it was just human error before and no corruption. Righty o.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Of course you would as you have nailed your colours to the VAR mast and would look a bit of a tit to back down now..

!

Go back and read my posts on VAR and see if I’ve nailed my colours to the mast. So many times I’ve mentioned why I DISLIKE VAR and why it has a long way to improve - all I do consistently say is that it should be the way forward ... because in my opinion reverting back to the refs blind guessing leads to more incorrect decisions and if corruption exists then it’s far easier for officials to flag or disallow goal whenever they felt like it.
so please just understand - I’m not a VAR lover , I just want refs to have technological help so we don’t have farcical decisions made - VAR is a step in the right direction but it has many flaws and a long way to go.

 

[mat]

The Premier League will propose to all member clubs a rebranding of the VAR system next season. Several clubs, including Manchester City have demanded more transparency from PGMOL over controversial decisions made using the system. Sources inside the PL say they will rename the system LAR. It's full title being Liverpool Assisting Referee. The idea being this will clear up any further confusion.

 

[the_tevez_wiggle]

Got to admit after a few of the last few seasons I was all for VAR.
The last utd prem win where they kept winning 1-0 last min pens and goals.
When dippers ran us all the way last season with mane & salah dives. All the offside goals.
That Tottenham match where they should & could of had atleast 3/4 reds for horrific tackles. We then went on a run of games where seriously bad tackles injured our players and no reds were given.
Micah pen, ball off his thigh onto his hand. Sterling jumps, turns his back, hits back of his arm whilst not looking and yep a pen.
So in my wisdom I thought no more dives (wrong eg mane), no more offsides (correct but tight offsides can be manipulated either way) no more dodgy handballs (wrong they just search for an infringement before giving or not giving handball. Red card decisions (wrong)

So yeah I was wrong and I apologise for arguing with others about it. Call me naive or stupid, whatever I genuinely didnt see this as a tool to influence games.

 

[RyanP3609]

I was wondering today, and thought this would be the best place to ask, but do we have any guys on here who watch lots of other European leagues’ football and could enlighten me/us with how the offside rule is being dealt with by VAR - do they have the daft lines being drawn and use the armpit rule etc etc.

Nah they don't (as far as I have seen anyways).

I was watching CF America vs CF Monterrey in the mexican league last night as I couldn't sleep. America had two goals disallowed in the first half (as well as there being one if not two (I cant fully remember) pen decisions, all in the first half) that were checked by VAR. One of the goals was disallowed for offside (and no line was drawn at all and looked borderline) then another was given for a handball in the build up (far more passes compared to the Van Dijk handball against Wolves), each time the ref stopped play, and for the majority of them checked the pitch side monitor before making the decision.

They all appeared to be the correct decision and they were all done far quicker than VAR decisions are done here (us vs Liverpool aside when VAR was "seemingly" done before the ball had hit the net for the offside!)

European league wise I only watch it intermittently and it's mainly Barca/a top Italian game, all of which from memory use the pitch side monitor.

It's easy as fuck to sort VAR, force the refs to use the pitchside monitor and mic up the refs (like in rugby/NFL and its played in the stadium too so everyone knows what's going on).

But theyll never do that cos they cant work the narrative in their own interests then, can they!?

 

[Bill the Blue]

Go back and read my posts on VAR and see if I’ve nailed my colours to the mast. So many times I’ve mentioned why I DISLIKE VAR and why it has a long way to improve - all I do consistently say is that it should be the way forward ... because in my opinion reverting back to the refs blind guessing leads to more incorrect decisions and if corruption exists then it’s far easier for officials to flag or disallow goal whenever they felt like it.
so please just understand - I’m not a VAR lover , I just want refs to have technological help so we don’t have farcical decisions made - VAR is a step in the right direction but it has many flaws and a long way to go.

I've read your posts and like I said, you've nailed your colours as far as I'm concerned..

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it.

You rambled on about what if Sergio's goal had been flagged for a foul or offside, it wasn't though was it so don't understand where you're going with 'if my auntie had balls' analagy..

You said VAR is now insuring they get all the marginal decisions correct the majority of the time regarding Liverpool..

Did you see our recent game there?

Do you think VAR got all the marginal decisions correct in that game concerning Liverpool?

You still stand by your comments?

Like I said, you've backed yourself into a corner and would embarrass yourself to change your opinion now so have got to press on peddling how wonderful VAR is and how Liverpool are treated like every other team in the Premier League..!

 

[the talisman]

Got to admit after a few of the last few seasons I was all for VAR.
The last utd prem win where they kept winning 1-0 last min pens and goals.
When dippers ran us all the way last season with mane & salah dives. All the offside goals.
That Tottenham match where they should & could of had atleast 3/4 reds for horrific tackles. We then went on a run of games where seriously bad tackles injured our players and no reds were given.
Micah pen, ball off his thigh onto his hand. Sterling jumps, turns his back, hits back of his arm whilst not looking and yep a pen.
So in my wisdom I thought no more dives (wrong eg mane), no more offsides (correct but tight offsides can be manipulated either way) no more dodgy handballs (wrong they just search for an infringement before giving or not giving handball. Red card decisions (wrong)

So yeah I was wrong and I apologise for arguing with others about it. Call me naive or stupid, whatever I genuinely didnt see this as a tool to influence games.

My thoughts exactly. I was saying to someone the other day how stupid I feel now, I genuinely thought it would benefit us by making the game more fair.
I don’t know what the answer is, we seem to get shafted with or without VAR.