EU referendum

[hilts]

Can I make a suggestion? Why don't the people who have already made up their minds go off and waste their time somewhere else? I am not be flippant - I am genuinely struggling to see why if your mind is made up, you'd want to waste your time here? if your mind is made up and you are voting a certain way, no matter what, inviting debate about various points is a complete waste of time. We have people on here (and in my opinion mainly on the Brexit side) who will claim black is white or visa versa as needs be to justify their emotional decision. Honestly I have no problem with that. If people are so convinced one way or the other then fine. If they want to make up facts and completely disregard others, that's also fine. But it's not at all helpful for those who's minds are not made up.

I fall into that latter camp. I can see huge disadvantages in leaving. I see huge problems in staying as well. I'd like to understand the relative pros and cons of each so I can make up my mind. Dogmatists endlessly repeating (usually unsustainable) arguments to justify their position adds nothing I thing.

So you're hoping after 305 pages and endless media coverage some genius is going to give you an undebatable fact and a light bulb will go off in your head and you will happily trot off to place your vote.

Good luck with that

 

[BigJoe#1]

So you're hoping after 305 pages and endless media coverage some genius is going to give you an undebatable fact and a light bulb will go off in your head and you will happily trot off to place your vote.

Good luck with that

^^This^^ Chippy Boy.

I hold no regrets about having made my mind up.... If you're so sure about what you're saying why are you here? Why do they have political debates between Farage and Cameron?

You're here to take on board arguements and to make an informed decision. I had credited you with enough nouse to be able to filter all the arguements and points made and to reach your individual decision, evidently I was wrong in that.

The inners on here can give no actual facts about what will happen if we stay in, just as the outers can't. It's all about opinion, speculation and individual values and priorities. I would have thought you'd know that. The whole purpose of a forum and debate is to try and persuade others to change views, or indeed to have your mind changed, or as in you case to gather evidence from both sides to help inform your own views. You are fee to disregard or take on board whatever you want, but please don't tell me or others on here (both inners and outers) to go away and leave you along with other undecideds to reach a view!

Have to say that was a very poor and disappointing post from someone I thought to be above that level of ignorance.

 

[blueonblue]

Have to say that was a very poor and disappointing post from someone I thought to be above that level of ignorance.

I thought it entirely typical of that special little snowflake, all he has ever posted is remainian propaganda without the logic to disuse or defend it ;0)

 

[hilts]

I thought it entirely typical of that special little snowflake, all he has ever posted is remainian propaganda without the logic to disuse or defend it ;0)

I thought he was undecided? Are you saying he is a sneaky inner parading as a fence sitter while craftily posting the odd stay in bias?

 

[blueonblue]

Go back and look at some of his posts, I did suspect it was call me dave logged on in search of approval at one point.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Having totally failed to demonstrate how we'd be better off, the Brexit argument comes down to (a) loss of Sovereignty and (b) loss of control of borders (from EU migrants).

(a) is certainly true, but the debate that isn't happening is, so fucking what. There's no evidence that left to our own devices we can run things any better, and if you look at the state we were in before we joined, plenty of evidence that actually we might be worse. Sick man of Europe, huge unemployment, strikes, 26% interest rates, 12 weeks to plead with BT to get a phone installed, British Leyland, need I say more. Oh, those were the days, when we had our Sovereignty.

Now we can't decide how much cocoa solids need to be in a bar of chocolate. Boo fucking hoo. Much of the legislation coming from Brussels - employment law, goods and services, human rights - is actually stuff that most of the country would regard as a good thing. As is the access to the EU markets and the ability to trade all around the world through the EU agreements. So we lose some Sovereignty, but are we losing it regarding anything *important*? Are we being dragged into a war we don't wan't to be in? Are we having our tax rates set for us? Are we being told how to run our schools, hospitals, police, army? No.

(b) is probably the biggest argument for leaving. But putting the emotions to one side, have you seen the queues of Polish and Estonians and what have you at the dole office? No, neither have I. They come here to work and often to do the shitty jobs that many people here don't want to do. They earn their money and pay their taxes and contribute to our aging population's pensions. Do they put a huge burden on our public resources? Yes. So we need to think about how to manage that. We probably need to spend more on schools and hospitals than we otherwise might. Which we can do with the increased GDP and tax revenues. Next.

Oh, there's does't appear to be a next.

Looking at this earlier post From you I can see you are very undecided and open minded to me on the subject, may be we should all leave and you can be the only poster and we can all follow your views.

 

[Chippy_boy]

^^This^^ Chippy Boy.

I hold no regrets about having made my mind up.... If you're so sure about what you're saying why are you here? Why do they have political debates between Farage and Cameron?

You're here to take on board arguements and to make an informed decision. I had credited you with enough nouse to be able to filter all the arguements and points made and to reach your individual decision, evidently I was wrong in that.

The inners on here can give no actual facts about what will happen if we stay in, just as the outers can't. It's all about opinion, speculation and individual values and priorities. I would have thought you'd know that. The whole purpose of a forum and debate is to try and persuade others to change views, or indeed to have your mind changed, or as in you case to gather evidence from both sides to help inform your own views. You are fee to disregard or take on board whatever you want, but please don't tell me or others on here (both inners and outers) to go away and leave you along with other undecideds to reach a view!

Have to say that was a very poor and disappointing post from someone I thought to be above that level of ignorance.

I didn't tell you anything. I asked a question and made a suggestion.

But honestly I have no idea why you or anyone else with a closed mind is even bothering to be on here.

You'll note for my umpteen posts that on several occasions I've said "fair point" or other such comment to someone suggesting an alternative view.

But some people are the equivalent of school children with hands over their ears saying "I'm not listening I'm listening I'm not listening". Well guess what, that's a bit tiresome after a while.

Still, everyone to their own and fortunately we have the ignore button with which we can filter out the dross, so either way I'm not fussed.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Go back and look at some of his posts, I did suspect it was call me dave logged on in search of approval at one point.

Welcome to my dross filter. Cheerio :-)

 

[blueonblue]

Bye dave...

 

[hilts]

So chippy boy is a tad dishonest, bit sad really but it takes all sorts I suppose