You seem like an intelligent young person.
Perhaps you could respond to the Len Rum open invitation to Brexiters to be a little more specific about what they want from the final settlement with the EU , do you have any 'red lines' that should not be crossed, what if the Govt. did cross them, would you protest/object and would that be a dereliction of your patriotic duty?
Answers on a post card please to:
Len Rum
Lounge and bar
The non conformist society
Neasden
Copy to mcfc1632.
Len, as mentioned in an earlier post, I seem to see things differently to you and that will be reflected in this answer
I guess when you were asking this question you were seeking/expecting to hear examples of Red Lines described in terms such as, no immigration, no involvement with the ECJ, not a penny going to Brussels, access to the single market etc.
The debate on here and generally in the wider press and public, seems to be about topics such as access to the single market, ending FOM etc. Of course the terms soft and hard Brexit are frequently used. I view these outputs as simply consequences of where the negotiations may(or may not) take us and, more negatively, I see the attempt to keep the focus on them as just more of the cynical Remainer machinations that have been going on for months as they continue 'the fight'. It is a type of Project Fear - trying to keep the negative consequences of Leaving high in the public conscious.
As an example, you would be forgiven for thinking that May is absolute that the UK must leave the single market - in some kind of 'hard-liner' stance. The fact is that it is not the UK mandating that position - it is the EU, through their insistence that FOM must be accepted. It is the same with most of the key themes/consequences that are being badged under the title of Hard-Brexit. It is repeatedly the case that positions are hardening through the EU's intransigence, not the UK's and we have to adapt accordingly.
So my answer to your question is that I am seeking the outcome of leaving the EU - fully and in a manner that demonstrates that it is complete and not vulnerable to becoming some form of 'associate member'. I do not want any version of membership, whether it comes with opt-outs or not - I simply want us to have fully left the EU.
How I describe the 'outcome' of having left the EU is through total freedom to control all key areas, such as borders, money and laws - essentially all the rights and freedoms of an independent nation. I wish to see the UK as free of the EU hegemony as any other nation such as Australia, the US etc. with any links only what we have decided to put in place - always fully under our control.
I am resolute in my view that the EU is a failing model and that should the UK continue to be tied to it through any form of membership then we will be in a downward spiral until we are dragged, through increasing integration, into the collective.
There are not really any Red lines for me so long as the government pursues a path to achieve a complete and clear separation. Achieving an outcome of 'actually' leaving the EU is essentially my only Red Line and I am willing to make almost any level of compromise/sacrifice so long as that is achieved.
Money - I have previously said this is a big area of leverage for us, but I would pay a lot to get away from the EU. I would go as far as to committing our contributions for the next 7 years - so long as that commitment was set against things securely negotiated in our favour and not just us being 'mugged' - such as 'we have to pay a divorce bill first.
ECJ - We must 'for all intents and purposes' be free of the jurisdiction of the ECJ and free to make our own laws - that said I am not unwilling to see if there are indeed some areas where it makes practical sense for there to be some form of compliance/equivalence
Immigration - like most I am sure, what I want is control. It is not a question of 'tens of thousands' - I see that as a cheap Remainer attempt to try and wed Brexit to Cameron's silly measure and brand Leave voters as being all about immigration. It is about having full control. I then do not care if the immigration continues at 300k pa - because it must mean that this is what we are selecting for reasons to support our economy. Indeed, continued high levels of immigration in a world where we have full controls could be welcomed as it should logically be driven by the needs of our economy and therefore reflect the health of that economy and thereby also mean that the money is there to fund the required improvements to infrastructure.
No - for me there is not a list of bullets to give you as Red Lines - I simply want to look back in a few years and to see that we have left - clearly - and I would pay a high price for that because it would be worth it in the long run.
So, as I have said in a number of posts previously, for me success in the negotiations would look like either:
a) We jointly agree a framework that sees the UK on a pre-determined track towards fully exiting the EU with agreements (solid principles) in place on how key areas, such as trade, will be undertaken. For this I would be happy to see the UK commit to support the EU with a good deal of money - on a tapering basis over, lets say 7 years, or
b) Should we, through the EU's intransigence, be unable to gain their 'acceptance' of the fact that we are indeed leaving (they have not accepted that fact yet!!) and they continue to play the hardball approach that their 'Negotiating Mandate' represents, then we 'crash out' early(taking our money with us) - accepting the full consequences of that.
A lot of Remainers will bleat about this 2nd option being the hardest of hard Brexits - but what pisses me off is their lack of ability to appropriately apportion the blame. It is clearly set out in the A50 note and many other pronouncements that we wish to have an excellent working relationship with the EU and will consider monetary support to them. It is the EU that are seeking to force the UK into what would be effectively continued membership. A bit like the Remainers on here - until the EU find it within themselves to accept that we are definitely leaving then progress is likely to be difficult.
May's decision to call the election, on the assumption that she secures and increased majority, should really help. Hopefully it will extinguish what has been up to now the EU's expectation that the decision to Leave will be undermined from within the UK and all they have to do is play hardball and drag the process out.
I think that the Remainers should review the EU's negotiating mandate - it is so totally one-sided and reflects an attitude of - the 'UK must lose' in every area. They will probably lap it up, but for me it is a clear demonstration of the status the UK 'enjoys' within the EU and the contempt to which the UK is held - all we are good for is our money.
I would much rather crash out and have a couple of decades rebuilding than to continue to be contemptuously milked and dragged along into full integration for generations to come.
This is our one chance - unexpected as it was - we need to take it cleanly and fully and allow compromises that could lead to us being sucked back in.
