Referees/Officials

[inchy14]

Well someone has suggested NO controversial decisions have gone against us this year and the Bravo tackle (which you called a soft penalty), Sane offside against Arsenal both went for us. So whether it was the correct decision or not a controversial decision has gone in our favour and that's the only thing I was stating.

So maybe you should know what people have actually written and what I am actually responding too. You may be able to follow the debate then.

Come off it Frank, I said we've had no controversial decision go our way and I stand by it. The Rooney and Sane ones you're bringing up weren't controversial at the time they happened but only after Sky ran the narrative which the rest of the media picked up and carried on. Rooney was out of control and was all day actually, his bust up on the touch line with Pep deserved a talking to at least and Sane was only mm off after a freeze frame.
It's not diluting the argument in any way. The end of the day, for whatever reason, we've been systematically shafted to hinder us and my original point was if it's down to incompetence how come they're never incompetent in our favour?

 

[trublue55]

Can someone with any personal knowledge, please comment on the story below. I am a newsagent, and yesterday i was chatting to one of my customers re sundays match, and basically saying (like some on here) that i am genuinely questioning the point in carrying on, after the way we have been shafted this season. Defeats by a better team, even poor performances by City, i can take, but constantly leaving the game, feeling cheated, is too much. Referees and assistants have for a while come under the category of corrupt or incompetent, and then moved on to question the lino / assistant who ruled out the Aguero / Sterling goal, and mentioned that he was also the culprit with Walker on Sterling in the Spurs match. Customer, who is a season ticket holder at the local Division one club, then said, (and i'm certain he was not on a wind up) " there's a guy who sits behind me, told me his brother is an assistant ref / linesman in the prem, and when he goes to Old Trafford, he gets (what he asks for) up to 8 tickets for family and friends, the family all get a good meal with him, and all drinks, everything is free, and yet some grounds he goes to, he is not even allowed into the bar.........."

now obviously the originator may have been exaggerating, or on a wind up, but if this is true, it's small wonder some clubs are more popular, and dare i say, treated more favourably than others. Is this an urban myth, or is this what is going on

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Many issues about Video refereeing.
1st is how does it become active? The referee requesting a review will not do.
2nd is the banter between officials. This needs to be at least on the record for clubs to review at the very least. Public ideally!
3rd is "When is the ball kicked" for offside decisions. By the laws of physics this is the point at which all momentum has been imparted into the ball by a player - which is between 2 and 4 frames (80ms and 160ms) dependant on the pass speed and occurs before a gap is visible on TV (the point pundits insist on using).

The offside thing is going to be painful to define. We've seen examples where one channel say onside and one say offside for the same incident, sometimes just by stopping it 1 frame later. I think only clear errors (Walker at WHL; Ronaldo vs Bayern) should be possible - the two in the Spain match were static positions, and could be judged.

I have my doubts that the correct angels will all be made available by the broadcasters (as they seem to have stopped showing close offsides nowadays). however, it would not take long before people generated their own records of referred decisions, how many are wrong, and who benefitted.

 

[LWashington]

Many issues about Video refereeing.
1st is how does it become active? The referee requesting a review will not do.
2nd is the banter between officials. This needs to be at least on the record for clubs to review at the very least. Public ideally!
3rd is "When is the ball kicked" for offside decisions. By the laws of physics this is the point at which all momentum has been imparted into the ball by a player - which is between 2 and 4 frames (80ms and 160ms) dependant on the pass speed and occurs before a gap is visible on TV (the point pundits insist on using).

Good points but as I said in the other thread I am concerned about something else aswell. The Spain v Italy game offsides were easy as the ball hit the net within a second of the call. Imagine however we are in the last minute of a crucial match and Sane is put clean through 40 yards from the goal. The linesman flags . What does the ref do? whistle or not? Whatever he does, what if Sane runs on and the keeper just walks away and lets him score. It's reviewed and is shown to be 2 yards onside. Do you think that for one minute despite whether the ref whistled or not that the goal would be allowed to stand?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

According to City watch we have never won a game with Craig Pawson in charge: He's also denied stonewall penalties against Leicester and Aston villa and now Arsenal.

Really makes you think!

The "not won" appears to be rubbish - 2 wins, 1 defeat + Sunday, 3 draws 7 matches.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

He's reffed us 8 times since 13/14, when he joined the PL. Two of those were in the FA Cup. We've won 2, drawn 4 and lost 2. The two losses were Sunday and dippers away on New Year's Day. Not great but not quite, 'never won a game with him charge'. He's never refereed a game at the Etihad though, which is a bit odd.

Blackburn 2014 in the FA Cup was at City.
No PL matches though, of the five.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Whilst we've certainly been on the wrong end of it this season, I would question whether these men in black are really capable of keeping up a constant conspiracy? They're certainly not the brightest bulbs in the box and yet, people think they're mentally quick enough to be constantly 'cheating' City out of games. The more likely explanation is that they're mostly, not quite good enough. The game is too fast for them (although I'm not sure they were ever that good, when it was slower). I think the biggest problem is that some of them want to be involved in the game and controversy gets their names at the top of the story. It's only a couple of years ago that the only linesman's name we knew was Mike Mularkey and that was only cause it sounded a bit odd! Now we know quite a few.

Blackburn 2014 in the FA Cup was at City.
No PL matches though, of the five.

Indeed he did.

 

[crazyg]

Same pay per game. But 'elite' and more experienced have higher basic. So prob correlation of pay and likelihood of reffing top teams/high profile fixtures

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/english-premier-league-referee-salaries/

And, with my slightly cynical mind, the chance to "help" the teams they actually DO support by either directly reffing and affecting their match, or making sure that their rivals are, shall we say, not allowed to prosper. Anthony (I'm an Alty fan, honest guv) Taylor v Chelsea immediately springs to mind.

For the VAR to be seen to be totally transparent, the incident should be shown on the main screen for all to see, and the dialogue between the referee and VAR broadcast. Only that way can the paying fans be made aware of the situation as the ref sees it, and his thinking (or lack of it) behind the decision.

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Whilst we've certainly been on the wrong end of it this season, I would question whether these men in black are really capable of keeping up a constant conspiracy? They're certainly not the brightest bulbs in the box and yet, people think they're mentally quick enough to be constantly 'cheating' City out of games. The more likely explanation is that they're mostly, not quite good enough. The game is too fast for them (although I'm not sure they were ever that good, when it was slower). I think the biggest problem is that some of them want to be involved in the game and controversy gets their names at the top of the story. It's only a couple of years ago that the only linesman's name we knew was Mike Mularkey and that was only cause it sounded a bit odd! Now we know quite a few.

Indeed he did.

I get where you are coming from but if that was the case that they are simply not good enough then surely they wouldn't be good enough for both teams? both teams committed 20 fouls Sunday, one team picked up 5 yellows the other picked up 2. Best case of us being refereed differently is Kun getting booked for lobbing the keeper when offside at Burnley whilst Son getting away with the same thing at home to us - it was the same ref!

Up until this season I didn't have the victim mentality however it is very clear to see we don't get treated the same as other teams. If the refs wasn't good enough then the old "they even themselves up" would actually happen or at least come close to happening.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Good points but as I said in the other thread I am concerned about something else aswell. The Spain v Italy game offsides were easy as the ball hit the net within a second of the call. Imagine however we are in the last minute of a crucial match and Sane is put clean through 40 yards from the goal. The linesman flags . What does the ref do? whistle or not? Whatever he does, what if Sane runs on and the keeper just walks away and lets him score. It's reviewed and is shown to be 2 yards onside. Do you think that for one minute despite whether the ref whistled or not that the goal would be allowed to stand?

Excellent point - I would suggest that linesmen will be given guidance to only flag for offside if its a good yard+ offside (as per Arsenal's disallowed 'Goal' on Sunday) and let the TV official sort it out if a goal is scored.