Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

[Magicpole]

Its been pulled because we dont want this thread to turn into the usual religious debate that only ever ends one way mate.

Its a thread that so far has been respectful and kept in mind those affected by Monday nights atrocity.

Im not saying it's worthy of debate on another thread but i dont think this one is the right place for it.

Ive put it up for Ric to look at and for him to decide the best place for it fella.

I don't agree with your assessment. I hope Ric can see it's not an attack on anyone but an exploration of what underpins the mindset. It includes the texts from the bible that echoes the same type of instruction. It also applauds the vast maj of Muslim people who do not follow the teachings literally and who play an invaluable contribution to our efforts to combat it.

To remove it is to deny debate on understanding the issues. If we do that then we approach it from an perspective that doesn't allow for understanding what these issues are.

Dissapointed that you read it and concluded it was anything other than an attempt to contextualise what we face.

 

[cucumberman]

when you say practicing muslim, how does that conflict with western life ? lets say drinking, going to watch City or to gigs and your wife ? I'm curious to know how a full practicing muslim can do both ?

Think these are out of topic questions mate but I'll answer quickly. I don't drink, but then I don't drink anything other than water and juices for health reasons. I watch City like everyone else, SC holder a few years and ticket before that, Maine road as well. I not only go to gigs, I play in a band and gigged once a week, covering Limp Bizkit, Korn, etc. And I don't get about the wife, but yeah she's female. I can't see any conflict and I don't impose my faith in others. When in Rome do as Romans do.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Apparently some poet said we will keep on smiling?

Sick of this liberal prose narrative and being seen to say the right thing.

I'm sure maybe relatives of some of these poor people who have lost their lives also felt a little more empathy with those platitudes before Monday.

It must start well before these people are being radicalised.

This is about communities closing themselves off to integrating into Western society in the first place.

I grew up in 80's Moss Side, black, Irish, poor, they were all there and we all lived together. This bastard seemingly lived in a Fallowfield street just around the corner from my teenage years.

I wouldn't dare walk anywhere around the streets that surround Maine Road now.

It is now a heavily-populated Somalian community who seem to run it as their own enclave, with my pals who have lived there forty years scared to go out at night.

Too many people seem to want to have their cake and eat it when it comes to living in Britain and Western society, wanting those freedoms we enjoy but only the freedoms they deem for for purpose?

There's little we can do about it now, this is the new reality, we just have to get lucky more than they do, to keep the death toll down.

Hunt them down the best we can.

I held my little ones a little tighter yesterday and although it seems it could happen anywhere, I will not let them attend a venue in the future which could now be considered a staging post for more attacks.

Stupid, most probably. But it's one less location I can change the way we go about our everyday lives.

I am too choked.

Scared to walk about in your own city. I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks like this. Our government are thick as shit.

When Isis became big a few years ago, everyone knew that English born jihadis where fighting in Iraq/Syria and then returning. Theresa may was on the news a good few months later and she said something along the lines of 'we've got suspicions that jihadis are returning to britain'. Couldn't believe what I was watching, talk about being naive.

Do you believe that's what's happening?

That counter terrorism is just a sham and everybody is sat around at GCHQ and MI5 playing Pokemon Go?

Out of every possible time to switch off your brain, this is probably the worst.

Any links, any suspicion of terrorism and they should be jailed indefinitely. Don't give a toss about any laws, only one way to deal with them is locking them up or throwing them out.

 

[Damocles]

An absolutely brilliant post and thank Magic Pole for sharing it.

Not really. Like many on this thread, you're scared and angry. And in your fear you're turning to division as an attempt to comprehend the incomprehensible.

It's no different from 9/11 conspiracies.

We don't like disorder as a species. The human brain will always pick patterns out of chaos and always create order even if none really exists. It's why constellations exist, why astrology is a popular pursuit and the millions of miracle cures will always find somebody to buy.

You create a "them" because it makes you feel better. There's no them. Your "we must hunt them down" is batshit insane, and to be honest if I were to question you to actually explain in logistic terms what you mean by that, I'm pretty sure you'd know that it's batshit insane.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Absolutely bang on. I am so thankful my girlfriend and her friends got home safely, but their firsthand accounts of the evening are heartbreaking. I can't begin to imagine seeing their words with my own eyes. We need to prevent this again, and that means we need action.

The ravings of a man who's spent his entire adult life being told that it's right to kill people who don't agree with you.

His heart is in the right place, he wants rid of violent terrorists. We all do. But the trouble is he's on about vanning, jailing and otherwise removing people from the streets for having the wrong pictures on their phones or for reading the wrong books. Sound familiar?

 

[Damocles]

Scared to walk about in your own city. I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks like this. Our government are thick as shit.

The Government is not responsible for your cowardice.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

I haven't been further involved in this thread because it spirals to pedantic debates. Let's not gloss over the tragedy by trying to find reasons behind the actions of evil.

There are many sects of Islam, and there are ones that are not even recognised. I am a muslim, of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jamaah branch. We adhere to our roots but sometimes adapt from the good and beneficial teachings of Hambali, Maliki and Hanafi. We have been taught, as part of our civic and moral code of faith from early childhood to never hurt a single ant, let alone a fellow human. When we are wronged, we are to do good on those who wrong us. I can assure you that those of my branch of which there are millions will not be easily indoctrinated because of the early civic and moral guidance that were given of us.

This is not a religion issue. This is the lack of education on one's religion issue.

I don't know how others here are opinionated that the book and its teaching has caused this. I can recite the book many times over but it didn't and will not ever drive me to performing or justifying evil acts. It's not the book but the people who manipulate its words that is of a concern. If someone has been given the right foundation of Islam from early childhood, they will not seek the 'expertise' of others in early adulthood, because their proper immersion of it while growing up gives them free will to decide what is right or wrong. When I turned 12, which is the average age of completing formal religious education, I have more than enough in me to discern what is right from wrong. We do not have to seek the purpose of living anymore as the religion is so integrated and seamless we can be part of the community as normal people. We become dentists, doctors, lawyers, football club owners, footballers, etc.

The trends with many of these individuals can be easily recognised. These are people without access to the right people in islam to guide them. The right system to direct them. These are people who already had unstable moral and civic upbringing hence were easily swayed by interpretations that do not reflect the truth. I can tell how easy it is for those who have not been immersed since birth in proper Islamic teaching to interpret the religion wrongly, by reading this thread alone. It is so easy to misinterpret something that you haven't had the chance to properly learn in time.

I know that there are calls for us muslims to act on this. But please understand we are in the same boat as you are. What are we supposed to do that others cannot do? We are as detached from these people as you are. My teachings cannot relate to their actions at all it is as different as night and day. People can cite excerpts from the book all they want but I've read the book millions of time in my life, and never once has it swayed me to do evil. If the teaching is right, the interpretation will be as well.

I don't usually comment on these sorts of threads but I thought I ought to say this this is a very useful and insightful message. Thanks

 

[mekonmcfc]

Think these are out of topic questions mate but I'll answer quickly. I don't drink, but then I don't drink anything other than water and juices for health reasons. I watch City like everyone else, SC holder a few years and ticket before that, Maine road as well. I not only go to gigs, I play in a band and gigged once a week, covering Limp Bizkit, Korn, etc. And I don't get about the wife, but yeah she's female. I can't see any conflict and I don't impose my faith in others. When in Rome do as Romans do.

thanks for replying, you must be an odd one out, for want of a better phrase. Appreciate the reply though thanks

 

[mancityvstoke]

I was walking near the old Lord Lyon (now gone) the other night as I park there if going to Rusholme now as parking is impossible.

Never once felt unsafe.

 

[CTID1988]

"14-year-old Nell Jones confirmed as dead
Just hearing heartbreaking news that Nell Jones, 14, of Goostrey, is the latest victim of the Manchester Arena bombing."

So many kids. Each death announced is just another gut punch, cannot imagine what the familys are feeling having a child snatched away like that. RIP