Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[MillionMilesAway]

Why aren't we a manufacturing economy? Where did those manufacturing jobs go? What happened with Tata Steel? What happened to the protection of those jobs?

There is some of course, but it is a small fraction.

The FT in March 2016 had service industries at 80% of the economy
Wikipedia claims 78% form a March 2017 reference.
In 2014, manufacturing was 11% of national output, and the UK had the 116th highest proportion of the economy being manufacturing. [source: Parliament briefing paper, August 2016]

No sane person would call the UK a manufacturing economy.

 

[jonmcity]

Largely, they went in the 80s. Whatever the causes of that, it happened. Blame, or praise if you prefer, whoever you want for that state of affairs.

It is water under the bridge and we are now where we are. We have to live with the fact that in the 1980s we moved from having an economy predominantly based on manufacturing to one predominately based on providing financial services. We also have to live with the fact that the option of reverting to WTO rules, which does not cover the provision of financial services, would in economic terms be a fucking disaster.

Yes the Thatcher government was a disaster for UK Manufacturing. We need a much more balanced economy than we currently have.

 

[BobKowalski]

Can we trade with any nation that an EU member state does not currently trade with?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly it's just a jumble of words. It's like 'EU fuck blah bad liberty noodle wheee bang fizz squirrel'

 

[Metal Biker]

Oh now it's about 'liberty'. Yeah right. You shift the goal posts again sunshine.

But hang on let's take your comments to another poster. Why aren't we a manufacturing ecomony? Well let's thank the Thatcher Govt for that one shall we. Again a domestic decision taken by the Govt at the time. Then you cite Tate Steel. If memory serves didnt Cameron block the EU from trying to stop the Chinese steel dumping? If you want protection for UK steel workers then the EU was all for it. Shame the Tory Govt disagreed.

I've always been about the liberty side of the discussion. Everyone else wants to focus on the financial implications, which is fine, it's an important subject. But never try and claim that my purpose in voting wasn't for the reasons i've just specified. You don't know me.

Thatcher's government was 27 years ago, you need to address why subsequent governments haven't done enough to promote, invest or more importantly what was stopping them. We've had a Labour Government, a coalition and a Conservative Government in that time. If manufacturing losses are such a great concern to both parties, why have they done nothing to address the syphoning of our industries to other EU member states? Why has the EU done nothing to promote industry in the UK? The agricultural aspects? Because that's not the UK's role; were sales and finances, Germany is the industrial powerhouse and the meditteranean and Eastern Europe regions are agriculture. We're not people, we're 'workers', drones. You want to work in industry? Miove to Germany, that's what the freedom of movement is for. Forget your cultures, your 'hometown traditions', you're Soviet, er... Europeans now.

 

[Metal Biker]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly it's just a jumble of words. It's like 'EU fuck blah bad liberty noodle wheee bang fizz squirrel'

A simple "I don't know" would have sufficed.

 

[Metal Biker]

Really? Like David Davis who thought we would be free to strike a bi-lateral trade deal with Germany? Or Boris Johnson who thought we would be able to remain in the single market but still introduce a points-based system of intra-EU immigration controls?

I didn't take advice, nor was my vote influenced by the Vote Leave Campaign.

I did my own research and based on the information available came to my own conclusions. I wanted to see the Stronger In campaign come up with information I may have missed or not considered as a benefit for remaining. They failed to do so. I knew the benefits and disadvantages of the status quo, but also knew the benefits and disdvantages of leaving. Nobody was able to determine the advantages of staying in the long term.

 

[jonmcity]

WTO has 164 members, we can trade with all of them. However tariffs and customs inspections are a barrier to that trade.

 

[Metal Biker]

There is some of course, but it is a small fraction.

The FT in March 2016 had service industries at 80% of the economy
Wikipedia claims 78% form a March 2017 reference.
In 2014, manufacturing was 11% of national output, and the UK had the 116th highest proportion of the economy being manufacturing. [source: Parliament briefing paper, August 2016]

No sane person would call the UK a manufacturing economy.

That's why I want to knwo why the EU hasn't done more to promote investment into our manufacturing to boost those figures. In Germany it's shy of 30%, why not here?

 

[Chris in London]

Yes the Thatcher government was a disaster for UK Manufacturing. We need a much more balanced economy than we currently have.

We have the economy that we have. There is an interesting debate to be had about whether Thatcher did what she did primarily to kill off heavy-industry union power or because she foresaw the way the world was going. Either way, she bequeathed us a service based economy and what beggars belief is that some of the most gung-ho Thatcherites like David Davis, who applauded every attempt to move into service based industry (in the south) and away from heavy manufacturing (in the north), are now the ones who seem most set on terminating our economy's most important sector from being able to access its most important market. Hello Mr Left Hand, My name's Mr Right Hand. What are you doing today?

The thing about moving from a manufacturing economy to a service economy is of course that to run a service based industry largely all you need is an office and support network. You don't need a large plant infrastructure for instance. It is far harder to turn a service economy into a manufacturing economy because you have to start building factories from scratch. That ain't going to happen in the next 20 months.

 

[Chris in London]

I didn't take advice, nor was my vote influenced by the Vote Leave Campaign.

I did my own research and based on the information available came to my own conclusions. I wanted to see the Stronger In campaign come up with information I may have missed or not considered as a benefit for remaining. They failed to do so. I knew the benefits and disadvantages of the status quo, but also knew the benefits and disdvantages of leaving. Nobody was able to determine the advantages of staying in the long term.

They didn't fail to do so. They did so, but the Leave campaign called it 'Project Fear'.