Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[jonmcity]

That's why I want to knwo why the EU hasn't done more to promote investment into our manufacturing to boost those figures. In Germany it's shy of 30%, why not here?

Don't Think you can blame the EU. Its our UK Governments that have under invested. We had a policy that third world countries can make it, with low wages and no working rights. We will invest in the same companies and take all the revenue to service our economies. Not very nice, we were even willing to allow great swathes of the UK to become deserted to allow this policy to proceed.

 

[BobKowalski]

I've always been about the liberty side of the discussion. Everyone else wants to focus on the financial implications, which is fine, it's an important subject. But never try and claim that my purpose in voting wasn't for the reasons i've just specified. You don't know me.

Thatcher's government was 27 years ago, you need to address why subsequent governments haven't done enough to promote, invest or more importantly what was stopping them. We've had a Labour Government, a coalition and a Conservative Government in that time. If manufacturing losses are such a great concern to both parties, why have they done nothing to address the syphoning of our industries to other EU member states? Why has the EU done nothing to promote industry in the UK? The agricultural aspects? Because that's not the UK's role; were sales and finances, Germany is the industrial powerhouse and the meditteranean and Eastern Europe regions are agriculture. We're not people, we're 'workers', drones. You want to work in industry? Miove to Germany, that's what the freedom of movement is for. Forget your cultures, your 'hometown traditions', you're Soviet, er... Europeans now.

Actually the EU has invested in industry in deprived areas of the UK. Northern Ireland in particular as part of the peace process. But clearly you see that EU as some lizard inspired plot to reshape the UK and eradicate our culture whilst ignoring the impact and decisions taken by the successive domestic Govts.

So let's face facts. We are talking tinfoil batshit crazy talk here aren't we?

 

[Metal Biker]

They didn't fail to do so. They did so, but the Leave campaign called it 'Project Fear'.

Project Fear is in reference to the doom scenarios of leaving.

What were the long term benefits of staying that the various remain campaigns put forward? There were none, they were too focused on the dangers of leaving. So they failed to produce a positive outlook not just for the UK staying in the Eu, but the EU itself. The migrant crisis, the refugee crisis, the economic crisis, the Crimea crisis, at the time the EU were being roundly criticised from both sides for failing to do enough and were looking inept. Little was done by remainers to provide a vision of confidence in the EU. On that aspect they failed.

 

[geoff clipp]

Actually the EU has invested in industry in deprived areas of the UK. Northern Ireland in particular as part of the peace process. But clearly you see that EU as some lizard inspired plot to reshape the UK and eradicate our culture whilst ignoring the impact and decisions taken by the successive domestic Govts.

So let's face facts. We are talking tinfoil batshit crazy talk here aren't we?

The thing I find doubly frustrating is that a lot of the people claiming we didn't get enough out of the EU, were the same people routinely voting for UKIP MEPs to represent us there. A bunch of people essentially on the fiddle, never bothering to turn up for work and doing nothing to help the people back home get the best that they could out of the EU. Like you say, the EU did actually put money into deprived communities but I expect there were a lot of missed opportunities on account of the fact we were sending reprobates like Nigel Farage there to represent us.

 

[Chris in London]

Project Fear is in reference to the doom scenarios of leaving.

What were the long term benefits of staying that the various remain campaigns put forward? There were none, they were too focused on the dangers of leaving. So they failed to produce a positive outlook not just for the UK staying in the Eu, but the EU itself. The migrant crisis, the refugee crisis, the economic crisis, the Crimea crisis, at the time the EU were being roundly criticised from both sides for failing to do enough and were looking inept. Little was done by remainers to provide a vision of confidence in the EU. On that aspect they failed.

The benefits of remaining and the dangers of leaving are opposite sides of the same coin. They are one and the same thing. Its like saying 'what are the benefits of not cutting your left leg off with a rusty saw' - before dismissing an inability to run, excruciating pain, permanent deprivation of your left leg and the danger of septicaemia as 'project fear'.

 

[Metal Biker]

The benefits of remaining and the dangers of leaving are opposite sides of the same coin. They are one and the same thing. Its like saying 'what are the benefits of not cutting your left leg off with a rusty saw' - before dismissing an inability to run, excruciating pain, permanent deprivation of your left leg and the danger of septicaemia as 'project fear'.

How about the fact the leg is gangrenous?

 

[geoff clipp]

How about the fact the leg is gangrenous?

Do we really need to use a rusty saw though?

 

[BobKowalski]

The thing I find doubly frustrating is that a lot of the people claiming we didn't get enough out of the EU, were the same people routinely voting for UKIP MEPs to represent us there. A bunch of people essentially on the fiddle, never bothering to turn up for work and doing nothing to help the people back home get the best that they could out of the EU. Like you say, the EU did actually put money into deprived communities but I expect there were a lot of missed opportunities on account of the fact we were sending reprobates like Nigel Farage there to represent us.

Yeah I never got that. Side note I have a lot of family in Hull and we are all meeting up in August as part of the City of Culture celebration ( yeah ok don't laugh). All largely voted leave. All like the improvements to Hull centre. They all say what has the EU ever done for us. I mean you are literally standing in the middle of something they have done for you. Total disconnect. Weird.

 

[jonmcity]

Yeah I never got that. Side note I have a lot of family in Hull and we are all meeting up in August as part of the City of Culture celebration ( yeah ok don't laugh). All largely voted leave. All like the improvements to Hull centre. They all say what has the EU ever done for us. I mean you are literally standing in the middle of something they have done for you. Total disconnect. Weird.

We under estimate the effect of a Murdoch media, on the ill educated. Its just like those Rag fans, They believe what they are told to believe.

 

[Metal Biker]

Actually the EU has invested in industry in deprived areas of the UK. Northern Ireland in particular as part of the peace process. But clearly you see that EU as some lizard inspired plot to reshape the UK and eradicate our culture whilst ignoring the impact and decisions taken by the successive domestic Govts.

So let's face facts. We are talking tinfoil batshit crazy talk here aren't we?

It's difficult to debate with close minded people. A bit like those who see the Monarchy as lizard people, the Tories as inherently evil, 'right wing' means Nazi, liberal means 'on the fence', Labour are Commies. Leavers are all uneducated racists, believing a lie on a bus.

Are the actions of our government influenced by EU regulations preventing them from taking better courses of action as it would undermine the authority and supremacy of the EU? The EU's only really been on this federalism 'Super Europe' kick since the mid 2000's. I liked the EU before then. Hence why I stated, the EU is not what it once was, it refused to listen to europe-wide calls for reform, cementing it's authority. I cannot support authoritarism.