Catalonian referendum

[Blue Whale]

By some distance, London is this country's greatest economic asset.

Yep, the good folk of Sunderland thank their lucky stars each day.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Typical bluemoon. Sad events, turn into a debate about London independence, some of you are fucking weird.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yep, the good folk of Sunderland thank their lucky stars each day.

Without London's largesse, Sunderland would more closely resemble Hartlepool.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Without London's largesse, Sunderland would more closely resemble Hartlepool.

Or Syria......

 

[ChicagoBlue]

After seeing the scenes from Spain, is it any wonder that so many people crave nationalism and self determination?

For thousands of years, tribes have fought wars for land and power, yet in the neoliberal 20th century, chastened by two World Wars, Europeans have tried to cobble disparate countries, with disparate histories and disparate cultures, together to try to open up a liberal democratic Utopia where jobs and economies rely so much in each other that war would be suicide.

It doesn't work. People are greedy. People can be manipulated. People are different.

It is one thing to lower trade tariffs and allow the freer movement of goods and services, but it is entirely a different process to remove national borders, allow the free flow of entire peoples, and to provide the social safety net and services needed to sustain that dream.

One wonders why people flock to urban areas within a country, but it is known...that's where the jobs are! So, how is that different when you drop national borders and allow the freedom of movement the EU dreams of? Well, clearly it isn't! People from every corner of the EU flock to the urban centers that appear to be the most vibrant, create social and economic distress, and choke off the local people's access to those same services...then they become bitter and distrustful.

Meanwhile, those who have gained the most from the movement of those goods and services have only further insulated themselves from the negative effects of the laissez faire policies, and further isolate themselves in their Ivory Towers from the common issues of the day. Land prices and home prices skyrocket, but those at the top can not only afford them, but can use the issue as a means of further enrichment, all while the social masses suffer greater hardships and the distance between the classes become further stretched and exaggerated by the compounding issues.

People want their own land, with their own kind. It has been this way for millennia, and it appears no 20th century liberal experiments are going to stop it, unless the long arm of concentrated power rises up to force it to stop. We all know where that leads, and it is not a pretty place.

Expect radicalization of "normal, middle of the road" people now, and for a reaction that Madrid will not like. If that was me and my own family being indiscriminately beaten by jackbooted thugs, you can be assured I would do everything in my power to resist them and their authority. We are human.

 

[Ricster]

After seeing the scenes from Spain, is it any wonder that so many people crave nationalism and self determination?

For thousands of years, tribes have fought wars for land and power, yet in the neoliberal 20th century, chastened by two World Wars, Europeans have tried to cobble disparate countries, with disparate histories and disparate cultures, together to try to open up a liberal democratic Utopia where jobs and economies rely so much in each other that war would be suicide.

It doesn't work. People are greedy. People can be manipulated. People are different.

It is one thing to lower trade tariffs and allow the freer movement of goods and services, but it is entirely a different process to remove national borders, allow the free flow of entire peoples, and to provide the social safety net and services needed to sustain that dream.

One wonders why people flock to urban areas within a country, but it is known...that's where the jobs are! So, how is that different when you drop national borders and allow the freedom of movement the EU dreams of? Well, clearly it isn't! People from every corner of the EU flock to the urban centers that appear to be the most vibrant, create social and economic distress, and choke off the local people's access to those same services...then they become bitter and distrustful.

Meanwhile, those who have gained the most from the movement of those goods and services have only further insulated themselves from the negative effects of the laissez faire policies, and further isolate themselves in their Ivory Towers from the common issues of the day. Land prices and home prices skyrocket, but those at the top can not only afford them, but can use the issue as a means of further enrichment, all while the social masses suffer greater hardships and the distance between the classes become further stretched and exaggerated by the compounding issues.

People want their own land, with their own kind. It has been this way for millennia, and it appears no 20th century liberal experiments are going to stop it, unless the long arm of concentrated power rises up to force it to stop. We all know where that leads, and it is not a pretty place.

Expect radicalization of "normal, middle of the road" people now, and for a reaction that Madrid will not like. If that was me and my own family being indiscriminately beaten by jackbooted thugs, you can be assured I would do everything in my power to resist them and their authority. We are human.

Jackbooted thugs? Western state militia you mean?

 

[mccity]

Is that the sort of attention that a descent into third world status would provide?

Exactly

 

[PALESTINIAN HEARTED MANC]

Broke my heart the amount of unnessirly violence applied by police. And from all the video I have watched I noticed Catalans were not violent in reactions( they got fee police memberes trapped at one video yet they didn't show aggrasive revenge behaviours) . May it end up peacefully, and turn the world's eyes onto those on other parts of the world having to put up with way worst circumstances. Those who can't get their voices heard, who just pray to be left alone in their land, to sleep feeling safe about their kids and loved ones. Those who don't have to only put up with barbaric treatments but also to be labelled as the trouble makers not victims. Bloody unfair world where media show facts 100% the opposite way it actually are :,(

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

After seeing the scenes from Spain, is it any wonder that so many people crave nationalism and self determination?

For thousands of years, tribes have fought wars for land and power, yet in the neoliberal 20th century, chastened by two World Wars, Europeans have tried to cobble disparate countries, with disparate histories and disparate cultures, together to try to open up a liberal democratic Utopia where jobs and economies rely so much in each other that war would be suicide.

It doesn't work. People are greedy. People can be manipulated. People are different.

It is one thing to lower trade tariffs and allow the freer movement of goods and services, but it is entirely a different process to remove national borders, allow the free flow of entire peoples, and to provide the social safety net and services needed to sustain that dream.

One wonders why people flock to urban areas within a country, but it is known...that's where the jobs are! So, how is that different when you drop national borders and allow the freedom of movement the EU dreams of? Well, clearly it isn't! People from every corner of the EU flock to the urban centers that appear to be the most vibrant, create social and economic distress, and choke off the local people's access to those same services...then they become bitter and distrustful.

Meanwhile, those who have gained the most from the movement of those goods and services have only further insulated themselves from the negative effects of the laissez faire policies, and further isolate themselves in their Ivory Towers from the common issues of the day. Land prices and home prices skyrocket, but those at the top can not only afford them, but can use the issue as a means of further enrichment, all while the social masses suffer greater hardships and the distance between the classes become further stretched and exaggerated by the compounding issues.

People want their own land, with their own kind. It has been this way for millennia, and it appears no 20th century liberal experiments are going to stop it, unless the long arm of concentrated power rises up to force it to stop. We all know where that leads, and it is not a pretty place.

Expect radicalization of "normal, middle of the road" people now, and for a reaction that Madrid will not like. If that was me and my own family being indiscriminately beaten by jackbooted thugs, you can be assured I would do everything in my power to resist them and their authority. We are human.

You've conspicuously failed to reference the Union in your post. Do you think the same fate awaits the United States as the EU? I'm genuinely interested what your take would be on that.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Back on subject. Will Barca be fined by FIFA for making a political statement, wearing Catalan shirts, Democracy on scoreboard and denying fans access?

Also, if they go the way they want will they play in their own Liga with Espanyol and Girona?