Ilkay Gundogan - 2017/18 performances

[Neville Kneville]

He's an exceptional back up midfielder who's shown he can play out of position at the base of midfield against a bunch of the best sides in the league, as well as deputising for KDB and Silva.

Then comparing him to Yaya, when Yaya came on against a Swansea side that had literally given up and were standing still while allowing him 10 yards of space and 5 minutes to waddle about before picking a pass. It's a completely ridiculous comparison, and I don't remember you calling for Yaya to start ahead of Gundogan away at Chelsea or Spurs.

You seem to have completely misunderstood pretty much everything I've said. But Swansea had been doing nothing in the game for a long time before Yaya (who I wouldn't dream of starting for City) came on & guess what, the best bit of defending by a City centre deep mid in the game, came from Yaya, catchng & stopping a 1v1 near our box, & the best attacking passes from a City centre mid, came from Yaya, who found passes Gundogan didn't from the very same space & time.

He was a better player at most things than Gundogan & because he's got old, people have forgotten it.

Neville & Tyler were talking about him playing cb for Barca, in the CL final. Gundogan v Ronaldo at cb ? I think not somehow.

Gundogan running through Villa's midfield at sprinter pace with players bouncing off him like kids ? Nope. How about goalscoring in general ? Nope.

Yaya is an all time great of KDB Silva level. If we can have such a player in the past, we can look for someone as good in the future imo, rather than make do with Gundogan, who is very good, but not that good.

 

[domalino]

You seem to have completely misunderstood pretty much everything I've said. But Swansea had been doing nothing in the game for a long time before Yaya (who I wouldn't dream of starting for City) came on & guess what, the best bit of defending by a City centre deep mid in the game, came from Yaya, catchng & stopping a 1v1 near our box, & the best attacking passes from a City centre mid, came from Yaya, who found passes Gundogan didn't from the very same space & time.

He was a better player at most things than Gundogan & because he's got old, people have forgotten it.

Neville & Tyler were talking about him playing cb for Barca, in the CL final. Gundogan v Ronaldo at cb ? I think not somehow.

Gundogan running through Villa's midfield at sprinter pace with players bouncing off him like kids ? Nope. How about goalscoring in general ? Nope.

Yaya is an all time great of KDB Silva level. If we can have such a player in the past, we can look for someone as good in the future imo, rather than make do with Gundogan, who is very good, but not that good.

So basically your bizarre hatred of our back up midfielder is that he's not 2014 Yaya Touré. Brilliant logic. No one has forgotten how good Yaya was, it's just been 3 and a half years so we've moved on.

Also Yaya making a tackle while sitting in Kompany's position so Kompany could go on a merry jaunt in the area in search for a goal was not the best piece of defensive play in the game, it was only noticeable because it was a Yaya tackle.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So basically your bizarre hatred of our back up midfielder is that he's not 2014 Yaya Touré. Brilliant logic. No one has forgotten how good Yaya was, it's just been 3 and a half years so we've moved on.

Also Yaya making a tackle while sitting in Kompany's position so Kompany could go on a merry jaunt in the area in search for a goal was not the best piece of defensive play in the game, it was only noticeable because it was a Yaya tackle.

It was the best bit of key defending by a midfielder, which is what I said.

Why do I have to 'hate' Gundogan, just because I would prefer us to sign somebody better ?

 

[domalino]

It was the best bit of key defending by a midfielder, which is what I said.

Why do I have to 'hate' Gundogan, just because I would prefer us to sign somebody better ?

Because whining that our backup players aren't of the level of "an all time great the level of KDB or Silva" is fucking stupid!

 

[Neville Kneville]

Because whining that our backup players aren't of the level of "an all time great the level of KDB or Silva" is fucking stupid!

Gundogan isn't a 'backup' player for me, he was a key signing which imo hasn't turned out as good as I hoped, irrespective of a great performance v Swansea. I think some of Yaya's touches, hilighted that, good as Gundogan was, we have had better players there.

So I want a better player there, to alternate with/play next to Fernandinho.

If Gundogan has a squad place behind them, I've no problem with it, he's a very good player. But if he has to leave, in order to make way for a better player, I've no problem with that either.

 

[Dax777]

You hatred for Gundogan is really quite bizarre.

Lol. It's not hatred. It's arrogance. Neville has a tendency to pick a position and when it looks like he may be wrong, he then belches out these fake praise monologues that really are critics wrapped in a "he is good, but" speech.

He is known for this. If he doesn't like a player, and the player starts playing well, he'll compare that player to the greatest ever - John Stones is no Bechenbaur, Otamendi is no Maldini, Gundogan is no Yaya Toure of 5 years ago.

The list if these types of moving the post is endless. It used to be Gundogan couldn't handle the DM position against good opposition. But when pointed out he has in fact done just that, notice how he slightly adjusted the point and now uses situational scenarios as his proof (I.e. "he was mugged in one particular instance and against top opposition, we'd have paid,"). Or we looked under the cost for 15 minutes against Spurs so I don't trust he can do the job.

Lol. Such childlike analysis are the norm with Neville. I just read them and smile. Coz I know deep down he already knows :)

 

[TCIB]

Sorry but you're actually trying to argue Spurs are a team to who don't blitz you with hard pressing and dangerous tackles?

Have you ever watched them? Quite apart from the fact they are 1 of 3 great pressing sides in the country, does someone need to show you the 3 legbreakers - Alli on KDB, Kane on Sterling, Davies on Kompany - they've put in over 180 minutes against us?

They have been rash but as a rule try to play football. They are not a physical team such as it is. They got frustrated and lost their cool, that is a marked difference from a physical team. I do not give spurs press as much merit as you either, does someone need to show you how much of an immobile lump Kane is? They try for a bit but it dies off reasonably quick.

The best pressing i have seen against us was earlier in the season by Watford, Bournemouth and Brighton if memory serves. Spurs are not crap but they drop off in intensity so their press is not as effective.

Press is not the main point anyway. The main point was he is better against ball playing teams, lesser teams that try to make up for any skill gaps with sheer physicality, their game may not even be to press. Those teams he seems less effective against.

He is a fine player who is best let loose against similar teams to us. He is by no means terrible against other styles and types of player, just not as effective.

 

[domalino]

They have been rash but as a rule try to play football. They are not a physical team such as it is. They got frustrated and lost their cool, that is a marked difference from a physical team. I do not give spurs press as much merit as you either, does someone need to show you how much of an immobile lump Kane is? They try for a bit but it dies off reasonably quick.

The best pressing i have seen against us was earlier in the season by Watford, Bournemouth and Brighton if memory serves. Spurs are not crap but they drop off in intensity so their press is not as effective.

Press is not the main point anyway. The main point was he is better against ball playing teams, lesser teams that try to make up for any skill gaps with sheer physicality, their game may not even be to press. Those teams he seems less effective against.

He is a fine player who is best let loose against similar teams to us. He is by no means terrible against other styles and types of player, just not as effective.

The point was that he couldn't play against teams who press or teams who look to injure people, and when it's been pointed out that Spurs are exactly that and he's done brilliantly against them, you've completely changed your argument.

 

[TCIB]

The point was that he couldn't play against teams who press or teams who look to injure people, and when it's been pointed out that Spurs are exactly that, yuo've completely changed your argument.

No i have not, he doesn't like it up him to much, that remains. Players like Silva handle it much better when players are snapping at his heels than a Gundogan. You are trying to create a straw man so wind your neck in pal.

Spurs are also exactly not that at all. They lost their cool but they are still a ball playing team. Their general play is not about physicality at all.

My point was that the teams noted were all teams who like to play proper football.

 

[domalino]

No i have not, he doesn't like it up him to much, that remains. Players like Silva handle it much better when players are snapping at his heels than a Gundogan. You are trying to create a straw man so wind your neck in pal.

Perhaps you need a reminder of your own words.

What is the similarity about all these teams? they try to play football. They do not blitz you with super hard pressing and indeed some serious/dangerous challenges. He has good reason to be wary of that so i doubt @quiet_riot is criticizing him as a fair weather, just stating a fact such as it is.

You've said he can't do it against teams that press or put in some "serious/dangerous challenges". Then you go on about how he's probably scared of challenges and then call your opinion fact.

Fact is he played well against Spurs, in games where 3 potential leg breakers went in.

Oh and just another point, he was exceptional against Napoli who are by far the best pressing side we've played all season. "Doesn't like it up him" Fucking hilarious.