'Alfie's army' Alder hey protest

[worsleyweb]

You don’t get legal aid for a civil claim or a private prosecution.

I will get my coat! They might get a no win no fee solicitor then?

 

[1.618034]

My heart breaks for Alfie and his parents tbh. But IMHO and speaking from a similar personal experience, they need to let get him home and spend what time they can with him and ultimately let him go. You've got to trust the doctors and move on. They do seem to be being given false hope and worse being used as pawns in a political game by Pro-Life groups, which frankly is disgusting and the mass protests and threats coming from this "army" are depressingly predictable when so many are ill/mis-informed and get wound up by social media. Again.

I just hope that they can get on with their lives but the media storm and politics around them isn't going away.

Very sad. But thousands of others have and are going through similar tragedy and manage to rebuild their lives.

 

[hammocity]

I’ve been in the horrible position of having to agree to my child’s life support system being turned off so I’m in more of a position to judge than most. Even then, I’m not going to judge the parents over that because I’m not in their shoes. My daughter had been starved of oxygen and had suffered a cardiac arrest during the birth. She was incapable of breathing on her own or maintaining a heartbeat without cardiac massage so it was an awful but straightforward decision. I also have friends who had a boy who had something called Tay Sachs Disease, which is a degenerative neurological condition seemingly not dissimilar to the one Alfie has. He got progressively worse and died when he was 5 years old. It wasn't a pleasant pathway either. So I suspect that poor young boy hasn't any realistic prospect of having any sort of life that doesn't involve an early death. There's no known cure for his condition, which they're not even sure about, but there's a potential treatment that could possibly prolong his life for a short while.

Having been there, a part of me obviously has sympathy for the parents for the pain they're going through but another, far larger part of me thinks “What are you hoping to gain from this? Let it go”. Yet if they think there’s a hope of salvaging something then I also think that Alder Hey should say “Fine. If that’s what you want to do then do it. Let the Italian doctors come to get him and then he’s their and your responsibility”. Who are they doing this for - Alfie or themselves? I suspect it's the latter. Sometimes, however much it hurts, you have to listen to advice that may not be what you want to hear.

But no way should their supporters be impacting normal life at Alder Hey. That's completely out of order & I've lost all respect for the parents, who seem to be encouraging this, whether implicitly or explicitly. I can understand them wanting the best for their child but not completely abandoning their dignity to pursue that.

Very good post, from the heart but with the head as well. A girl I know was 15 back in the late 90's had a friend who's six year old sister had a tumour on the stem of the brain. To remove that would have caused paralysis of the body from the neck down. The Doctors gave her a maximum of three years "normal" life, the parents accepted that and would have never considered raising their previously active child as a paralysed kid in a wheelchair. As it happened the child lived for 3 years and the Wish Upon a Star charity made that three years very special.

Alfie and Charlie Gard's parents are/were irresponsible in wanting their children to live with virtually no chance of leading anything other than a severely restricted life, IE no senses, awareness of life or any pleasures. I know any parent would take any slim chance of saving their kids but the Medical Staff in this country are as good as anywhere in the world and if they make a decision to pull a life support you have to trust they have done all they can.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I will get my coat! They might get a no win no fee solicitor then?

Possibly; that is a matter for them, but the costs they could recover in a private prosecution would be limited to legal aid rates. Simply not worth it. A firm might recover more costs in a civil claim, but based on what I can see it’s got virtually no chance of success as I can’t see any breach of duty or causation being at play in this case, on its face. Therefore any firm taking a punt on that case would be doing so foolishly (or largely in the interests of self-publicity) imo. Furthermore, for perfectly valid public policy reasons, state institutions are afforded a certain layer of protection from being routinely subject to claims by individuals. Can’t see how the hospital has acted on a way that is unlawful or irrational (in the legal, ‘Wednesbury’ sense) Lastly, the establishment tends to look after its own, again for understandable reasons. To find against a public institution like Alder Hay the conduct would have to be both egregious and manifest. Unless the narrative changes hugely I would say any civil claim is bound to fail and any private prosecution could (and probably would) be taken on by the CPS and dropped. Unfortunately, not everyone provides such frank and forthright advice. Cases like this can bring out the worst in some so called professionals.

 

[worsleyweb]

Possibly; that is a matter for them, but the costs they could recover in a private prosecution would be limited to legal aid rates. Simply not worth it. A firm might recover more costs in a civil claim, but based on what I can see it’s got virtually no chance of success as I can’t see any breach of duty or causation being at play in this case, on its face. Therefore any firm taking a punt on that case would be doing so foolishly (or largely in the interests of self-publicity) imo. Furthermore, for perfectly valid public policy reasons, state institutions are afforded a certain layer of protection from being routinely subject to claims by individuals. Can’t see how the hospital has acted on a way that is unlawful or irrational (in the legal, ‘Wednesbury’ sense) Lastly, the establishment tends to look after its own, again for understandable reasons. To find against a public institution like Alder Hay the conduct would have to be both egregious and manifest. Unless the narrative changes hugely I would say any civil claim is bound to fail and any private prosecution could (and probably would) be taken on by the CPS and dropped. Unfortunately, not everyone provides such frank and forthright advice. Cases like this can bring out the worst in some so called professionals.

Great summary which I pretty much understood although I am about to google egregious.

 

[kippax4ever]

Alder Hey,is not the best kiddies hospital in the UK,but its renowned all over the world.But the shame/sadness about this,is that its being played out on social media.people being asked to bring ventilation equipment to the hospital(now were would the general public get this equipment)
On GMB this morning PM-gooner asked Dr Hillary,It is possible doctor,s mistakes.No maybe wrong diagnostics,but not at this level.
Then they asked the Dr,well how come he,s breathing now on his own,which he explained the injections they gave him for his brain,will for a period(5-10days if he lucky)
Help his lung to work.But the outcome regrettably.will be what the Specialist have said..

 

[mackenzie]

It's all just incredibly sad. I can perfectly understand the parents need and desire to find hope anyway they can, and to clutch at anything.
This might be controversial but sometimes the medical ability to keep a person "alive" is compounding the problem (in some cases) I think. Especially with those so young. It's a natural reaction for parents to fight for their child. Yet had the ability to keep the child "alive" not been there then I think the parents would have been better served.
I know that sounds harsh, and hindsight is wonderful. Yet if it as bad for Alfie as the medical experts say then they wouldn't have gone through this and probably come to terms with it much earlier.
I'm a great believer in not judging someone unless you've experienced the same.
The rent a mob though is a different debate.

 

[kaz7]

I think the lad not dying straight after life support was switched off has given his young parents renewed hope,if the drs got that wrong they are saying,i think i would think that too

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Unfortunately the term life support is probably not the best. It doesn’t follow that switching it off means instant death. It can take a few minutes or several days for the heart to stop beating and that will have been explained to the parents. A decision like this is not taken lightly and will have been made by a team of experts in their field and not some doctor acting on his own.

 

[kaz7]

Unfortunately the term life support is probably not the best. It doesn’t follow that switching it off means instant death. It can take a few minutes or several days for the heart to stop beating and that will have been explained to the parents. A decision like this is not taken lightly and will have been made by a team of experts in their field and not some doctor acting on his own.

I think they are past taking in info they don't want to hear,they are very young and desperate,i'm an ex nurse and all staff caring for a patient get asked their view,some agree and some don't,it's very emotional for the staff as well,such a sad situation