PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[halfcenturyup]

I had a bit of a dance with someone some months ago on this point.

My point was that if ultimately the IC rules that there was evidence to prove the charges then by definition that will have been because or either. : Fraud , Concealment or a Mistake by virtue of that the charges aren’t time barred.

If the charges aren’t proved then the argument is irrelevant

It depends which allegations you are talking about, imho. And what the allegations actually are. Proving an allegation doesn't automatically mean "knowing concealment" (proving fraud presumably does). And I am not sure a mistake, or a difference in interpretation on an accounting matter, if you will, is either as, if you believed you were in the right, then there could be no "knowing concealment".

Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point is that I have never heard that a tribunal process, as described by @domalino , won't take into account the limitation periods of the Limitation Act in its judgment. I was asking, really, for his clarification on that and his reasoning. He may be right, the law is an ass, after all. But I very much doubt it.

 

[Centurions]

If that's how it works then I'm changing my username to @MrDoubleFootLong

Also who says his ex was a woman?

Or human?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Without sight of the PSR/ FFP submissions there may be an implication but would further charges follow ? I very much doubt it indeed in the Everton judgment the IC for me suggests that matters not on the charge sheet can’t be assessed and focusing on double jeopardy the PL couldn’t and shouldn’t return with further charges

The allegations already include breaching FFP over a number of assessment periods. My guess is they have adjusted earnings before tax for the effects of each of the alleged breaches and made the allegations on that basis.

Personally, I think the only matter that would push the club into a breach is the alleged disguised equity funding in the Etihad sponsorship, but they don't have a snowflake's chance in hell of proving that, imo.

 

[terraloon]

It depends which allegations you are talking about, imho. And what the allegations actually are. Proving an allegation doesn't automatically mean "knowing concealment" (proving fraud presumably does). And I am not sure a mistake, or a difference in interpretation on an accounting matter, if you will, is either as, if you believed you were in the right, then there could be no "knowing concealment".

Anyway, that wasn't my point. My point is that I have never heard that a tribunal process, as described by @domalino , won't take into account the limitation periods of the Limitation Act in its judgment. I was asking, really, for his clarification on that and his reasoning. He may be right, the law is an ass, after all. But I very much doubt it.

It has no choice but to take into account the limitation act as the tribunal has to operate in accord with English law. My point wasn’t that at all it was what are the exceptions to dealing with time barred
The UEFA rules I believe simply don’t allow them to even be considered wheras the Limitation Act has exceptions

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Wrong again, it is true that there’s no time bar in the Premier League rules unlike UEFA’s. Thats a fact, I don’t care if you can’t stomach it.

Both are subject to the law of the land in which they’re enforced, like every single contract ever written which is why no one feels the needs to spell it out in every post.

That is what you’re pointing out, but that is something completely different. The panel won’t be making judgements on the statue of limitations, just as CAS would have allowed the earlier evidence into the case if it was looking at the PL’s rule book and the club would have to go to a high court after a verdict to appeal on the grounds of the statute of limitations.

The written agreement between the clubs and the PL will unquestionably have a boilerplate clause stating that the contract is subject to (and therefore enforceable by) the laws of England and Wales.

The Limitation Act 1980 provides that the limitation period (or statute of limitation, as you called it) for a claim for breach of contract (which is what these charges ultimately are) is six years from the date of the breach, unless it is a fraudulent breach, in which case the limitation period commences on the date of discovery of the (fraudulent) breach (or with reasonable diligence, when it would have been discovered).

That boilerplate clause, and the statutory operation of law within this jurisdiction, mean that the foregoing limitation periods cannot be avoided or opted out of within the PL rules.

The limitation periods are therefore a term of the contract (and thereby the PL rules) as much as any other. In fact, arguably more so - as they supervene all other terms therein, irrespective of any prima facie breach thereof.

So there is a time bar for the enforcement of the PL rules contained within the material contract. If the panel ignores that limitation period, then you are correct that the club would need to remedy that through the High Court, but it would be on the basis that the PL had not applied the contact correctly, as a matter of law, not simply because of some extraneous legal doctrine.

 

[terraloon]

The allegations already include breaching FFP over a number of assessment periods. My guess is they have adjusted earnings before tax for the effects of each of the alleged breaches and made the allegations on that basis.

Personally, I think the only matter that would push the club into a breach is the alleged disguised equity funding in the Etihad sponsorship, but they don't have a snowflake's chance in hell of proving that, imo.

Based on what was put to UEFA it will be extremely difficult to see how any IC will rule differently and yes we all know how inept the PL are but other than them having more details etc you would imagine on this aspect their won’t be any different outcome

 

[halfcenturyup]

It has no choice but to take into account the limitation act as the tribunal has to operate in accord with English law. My point wasn’t that at all it was what are the exceptions to dealing with time barred
The UEFA rules I believe simply don’t allow them to even be considered wheras the Limitation Act has exceptions

Yes, your point was right but I was replying to someone who suggested the IC wouldn't even consider limitation.

 

[halfcenturyup]

The written agreement between the clubs and the PL will unquestionably have a boilerplate clause stating that the contract is subject to (and therefore enforceable by) the laws of England and Wales.

The Limitation Act 1980 provides that the limitation period (or statute of limitation, as you called it) for a claim for breach of contract (which is what these charges ultimately are) is six years from the date of the breach, unless it is a fraudulent breach, in which case the limitation period commences on the date of discovery of the (fraudulent) breach (or with reasonable diligence, when it would have been discovered).

That boilerplate clause, and the statutory operation of law within this jurisdiction, mean that the foregoing limitation periods cannot be avoided or opted out of within the PL rules.

The limitation periods are therefore a term of the contract (and thereby the PL rules) as much as any other. In fact, arguably more so - as they supervene all other terms therein, irrespective of any prima facie breach thereof.

So there is a time bar for the enforcement of the PL rules contained within the material contract. If the panel ignores that limitation period, then you are correct that the club would need to remedy that through the High Court, but it would be on the basis that the PL had not applied the contact correctly, as a matter of law, not simply because of some extraneous legal doctrine.

Thank God. I thought I was going crazy.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

So who's right. Or which is right, I'm not bothered who is right.

 

[halfcenturyup]

So who's right. Or which is right, I'm not bothered who is right.

Yes.