The SATS con and our education system

[GortonBlue62]

"Never let your schooling interfere with your education" - Mark Twain.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Unfortunately that's not true. As a former teacher you must have observed hundreds (thousands?) of children and know that the world is inherently unfair.

I know that the world is unfair but I believe that we, as teachers, can attempt to turn it round as much as possible. It’s when everyone gives up on our children that society disintegrates.

 

[GortonBlue62]

I'd say that the biggest factor in a child's education is the level of parental engagement.

It's one of the main factor's in explaining why the same system fails white working class children and seems to be excellent at achieving good results for the children of Asian and oriental families.

 

[GortonBlue62]

I know that the world is unfair but I believe that we, as teachers, can attempt to turn it round as much as possible. It’s when everyone gives up on our children that society disintegrates.

But pretending that they're all capable of great things is just a delusion. There is a range of abilities in intellect, athletic ability and anything else you can measure. But of course we should seek to raise standards across the board.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I'd say that the biggest factor in a child's education is the level of parental engagement.

It's one of the main factor's in explaining why the same system fails white working class children and seems to be excellent at achieving good results for the children of Asian and oriental families.

Just go and look how the selfish bastards park outside the school and the abuse you get if you pull them up on it, their kids stand no chance with that’s sort of example.

 

[GortonBlue62]

Just go and look how the selfish bastards park outside the school and the abuse you get if you pull them up on it, their kids stand no chance with that’s sort of example.

They'll probably do really well. Learning to use those elbows and developing a sense of entitlement will go a long way in helping you (and your offspring) up the greasy pole.

 

[Eccles Blue]

But pretending that they're all capable of great things is just a delusion. There is a range of abilities in intellect, athletic ability and anything else you can measure. But of course we should seek to raise standards across the board.

I’m sorry I totally disagree with you. I never said they were all capable of great things just that they all develop at a different pace. One thing I am definitely not when it comes to children is delusional. Every child is different.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

In order to drive safely on the road you need to reach a certain level of proficiency.

In an examination, identifying the top 7% (or whatever an A grade was) is useful in finding the best candidates.

Not much use in finding the 'best' candidates if none of them actually meet the requirements though. It'd be like finding the best looking person in the Man Utd squad. It also makes it pretty difficult to tell if teachers are doing their job properly if the best 50% performing students pass no matter what. You'd think having loads of candidates that have met the requirements would actually make life easier.

But the world of work/recruitment has this weird obsession with finding this mythical perfect candidate, rather than someone who is simply capable of doing the job they advertised. Spending a fortune with four rounds of interviews and tasks to distinguish between 10 candidates who could all do a decent job, mainly to justify the job of the person doing the recruiting.

As for university admissions, they don't have any excuse, because they have access to the individual scores you got on every single module of your A-levels anyway. So the idea that they couldn't distinguish between students because too many got an A is simply not true.

 

[117 M34]

To get this thread back on track and talk about SATs

Firstly don’t blame the schools. SATS are an imposed system of grading children. If schools do not get “good “grades of level 4 or above their OFSTED rating will be severely compromised. Senior management jobs can depend on this so of course they are going to jump through the externally imposed hoops politicians have given them.

We always used to sum up the futility of SATs with the saying “you don’t fatten a pig by constantly weighing it.”

Level 4.
You're going back some years there.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Classes of 25 have become 40+.

All that counts is the test.

An entire system of education dismantled. As is the case in the NHS, with the removal of trusted GP's who see a patient face to face, the once totally implicit ideas of continuity of care, 'whole patient' approach, gone.

Because they stare at their bank balances so much, they find it easy to believe that people are no more than robots.

Rather than emotional, living creatures with rather a lot more going on under the surface than is ideal.

Same thing in education. It was an investment in the whole person. You lay the foundations and encourage a person to live, exist and thrive. And hope the culture passes on it's wisdom. The nous to give people a shot at a balanced way to think about themselves and the world.

Whatever there is in SAT - there is no wisdom.

I'm afraid culture wars are a terrible answer to this. There is no right answer to the things we sometimes insist on imposing. Kids will get that. Even if we can't explain it. Sometimes we just end up showing that something is wrong. A resistance builds. We aren't smart or clear enough to know what the truth is - we just end up forcing strange things through for the silliest of reasons.

The best goal is different; get the individuals to think well for themselves, to work around the limitations of people inherently and neccessarily disagreeing. To accept the contradictions of the world, and approach it all as a work in progress, a best effort. To know, their view is of value. But to give them the confidence to keep thinking openly about it, privately as well as publicly. So they are not holding on to it desperately. And so they are not prone to end up swayed by small stuff. There is no value in producing fodder for people seeking to exploit easy false answers.

We have to try to give people a sense that something a bit better and more durable is possible, if they keep working for themselves, on their invisible estate, the unwritten unknowable balance sheet, the hidden garden or the secret library of the mind.

It can be measured in outcomes. The outcomes we are failing at now. That's how this happened. We only ever discuss this year's results. And so we totally overlook the obvious truth lives are shaped over decades. Fruition is a whole life deal. So are many many mental health problems. They don't emerge out of the blue and it doesn't happen overnight.

I dunno. I don't expect this to be solved. We will always be distracted by the short term. The latest cycle of results. I don't think that changes.

All I'm saying is, we can do better. IDGAF about train privatisation or many other things. I just hope that there is some move to reverse the trend on class sizes and other short sighted refusals to acknowledge humans for what they are.

You get an A+ for the username young man.