Abortion

[super_city_si]

Pro choice. There are grey areas but There should be a choice.

 

[SWP's back]

Very, very difficult for a man but have views anyway.

It’s not. You respect a woman’s right to have control over her body and that’s about it.

 

[SWP's back]

Whatever about an individual's moral/religious beliefs; with the amount and variety of contraception available, abortion shouldn't be necessary in the vast majority of cases.

No contraceptive is 100% effective.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

The world doesn't need more unwanted people.


But, coincidentally, I read this the other day, powerful stuff.

Diary of an Unborn Child

OCTOBER 5 Today my life began. My parents do not know it yet, I am as small as a seed of an apple, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers.

OCTOBER 19 Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am.

OCTOBER 23 My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be: MAMA.

OCTOBER 25 My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire. It will stop, and then I shall die.

NOVEMBER 2 I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will ruise me to my mother's arms, before these little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father.

NOVEMBER 12 Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small they are! I'll be able to stroke my mother's hair with them.

NOVEMBER 20 It wasn't until today that the doctor told mom that I am living here under her heort. Oh, how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom?

NOVEMBER 25 My mom and dad are probably thinking about a name for me. But they don't even know that I am a little girl. I want to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already.

DECEMBER 10 My hair is growing. It is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair mom has.

DECEMBER 13 I am just about able to see. It is dark around me. When mom brings me into the world it will be full of sunshine and flowers. But what I want more than anything is to see my mom. How do you look, mom?

DECEMBER 24 I wonder if mom hears the whispering of my heart? Some children come into the world a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly tup-tup tup-tup. You'll have a healthy little daughter, mom!

DECEMBER 28 Today my mother killed me.

Surely, consciousness creates the “I” and there is no consciousness, and thus self awareness. Therefore, it is just another of the emotional, guilt trip tactics of the Anti-Choice supporters.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Agreed that thats the grey area, but still cant envisage a world in which a woman is made to carry a baby to full term at the request of the father/court system if she was adamant she didnt want it.

I hope we never get to a place where the State controls anyone’s body. Some in America definitely seek it, but then once the child is born, they don’t want to hear another word about it, of course! Then, it is all about “rugged individualism” and self reliance!

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Devil’s advocate: So, if I got my wife pregnant and I was ecstatic, but she decided, in week 23, that she had had enough and terminated it, I have no say and no recourse?

Not legally, no. Of course you'd have the recourse of divorcing your wife for making a decision without you if you felt strongly about it. Although it wouldn't say a lot about your marriage if your wife would make any huge decision without taking your opinion into consideration. Just because the final decision is the woman's, it doesn't mean that family can't have any input. But seriously, does anyone actually do this?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Not legally, no. Of course you'd have the recourse of divorcing your wife for making a decision without you if you felt strongly about it. Although it wouldn't say a lot about your marriage if your wife would make any huge decision without taking your opinion into consideration. Just because the final decision is the woman's, it doesn't mean that family can't have any input. But seriously, does anyone actually do this?

Yes, they do, but often do not inform their husbands.

It was a hypothetical on my part to be compared with some of the definitive statements previously made.

I am in favor of a woman’s right to choose, but also believe that if she knows she is pregnant, she has a duty to inform the father of her decision to abort, if that is the choice. After all, if she so chooses, she can’t bring the child into the world and the man is then immediately responsible for the child until maturity.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Yes, they do, but often do not inform their husbands.

It was a hypothetical on my part to be compared with some of the definitive statements previously made.

I am in favor of a woman’s right to choose, but also believe that if she knows she is pregnant, she has a duty to inform the father of her decision to abort, if that is the choice. After all, if she so chooses, she can’t bring the child into the world and the man is then immediately responsible for the child until maturity.

What do you mean by 'duty' though? A legal duty? Or just a moral one? We can all have opinions about what someone should do, but we're talking about the legalities of it.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Incidentally, if anyone's interested, Sara Pascoe's book Animal has a great chapter on what it's like to have an abortion as a teenager. Including having to walk past a bunch of fundamentalist Christians shouting that you're a murderer.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

What do you mean by 'duty' though? A legal duty? Or just a moral one? We can all have opinions about what someone should do, but we're talking about the legalities of it.

Clearly, she doesn’t have a legal duty to do so, but she should if he has a legal duty to pay for the raising of the child to maturity.

BTW, in a world of “equality” does the male have ANY rights, such as “I want her to have an abortion OR I want to have no financial responsibility for the child if she chooses to carry to term against my wishes.”??