Abortion

[I'm With Stupid]

Clearly, she doesn’t have a legal duty to do so, but she should if he has a legal duty to pay for the raising of the child to maturity.

So how would that work on a practical level? The woman who wants an abortion has to prove that she's told the man first? Could she be refused an abortion if she hasn't informed the man?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

So how would that work on a practical level? The woman who wants an abortion has to prove that she's told the man first? Could she be refused an abortion if she hasn't informed the man?

What I’m trying to get at is how one sided this whole thing is, and that maybe both potential parents should be aware of the decision to abort, especially considering one of them is going to none made legally responsible for the child’s financial welfare...and it I usallynot the one who decides to have the abortion or not. In hort, what rights does the man have? Almost none...only responsibility! Is that right in a fair and just and equal society?

Again, Devil’s advocate, seeing as how someone wants to open the box with this thread.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

What I’m trying to get at is how one sided this whole thing is, and that maybe both potential parents should be aware of the decision to abort, especially considering one of them is going to none made legally responsible for the child’s financial welfare...and it I usallynot the one who decides to have the abortion or not. In hort, what rights does the man have? Almost none...only responsibility! Is that right in a fair and just and equal society?

Again, Devil’s advocate, seeing as how someone wants to open the box with this thread.

It doesn't seem fair, but these laws aren't really based on individual fairness, but on the impact they would have on society. Making abortion easy for women has nothing but societal benefits. Making it easy for men to disown children they don't fancy paying for would cause massive problems.

Think about what you're asking. Yes, for the majority of people in a loving or at least respectful relationship, you'd expect them to involve their partner in their decisions. But what about the other cases? Is it necessary to inform a one-night stand that you're going to have an abortion? Take it further. Is it necessary to inform your rapist that you're going to abort their baby? What about a woman in an abusive or controlling relationship? Or a woman from a religious background that forbids abortion who knows that the man will tell other people about it? Yes, in an ideal world, what you're saying makes sense, but you have to look at the circumstances surrounding abortions. Women who don't tell the father about it usually have a pretty good reason for not doing so.

 

[hilts]

What I’m trying to get at is how one sided this whole thing is, and that maybe both potential parents should be aware of the decision to abort, especially considering one of them is going to none made legally responsible for the child’s financial welfare...and it I usallynot the one who decides to have the abortion or not. In hort, what rights does the man have? Almost none...only responsibility! Is that right in a fair and just and equal society?

Again, Devil’s advocate, seeing as how someone wants to open the box with this thread.

You're right mate the fathers have no say or rights, walking wallets

 

[ChicagoBlue]

It doesn't seem fair, but these laws aren't really based on individual fairness, but on the impact they would have on society. Making abortion easy for women has nothing but societal benefits. Making it easy for men to disown children they don't fancy paying for would cause massive problems.

Think about what you're asking. Yes, for the majority of people in a loving or at least respectful relationship, you'd expect them to involve their partner in their decisions. But what about the other cases? Is it necessary to inform a one-night stand that you're going to have an abortion? Take it further. Is it necessary to inform your rapist that you're going to abort their baby? What about a woman in an abusive or controlling relationship? Or a woman from a religious background that forbids abortion who knows that the man will tell other people about it? Yes, in an ideal world, what you're saying makes sense, but you have to look at the circumstances surrounding abortions. Women who don't tell the father about it usually have a pretty good reason for not doing so.

Well, legal vs illegal comes into play when discussing abuse, rape and the like. No one in their right mind would believe that a rapist should have parental rights.

And, again, I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. Sometimes, I think we forget that it takes two to tango, yet only one person gets to make any decisions about the unborn child, but soon as it is born, it is “Show me the money!”

And, before anyone asks, I’m not referring to me. I’ve been married to the same (and only) woman for 31+ years and have two wonderful adult children.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

The only people who would argue that a rapist could see his child are Liberals who are the scourge of modern democracy.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Well, legal vs illegal comes into play when discussing abuse, rape and the like. No one in their right mind would believe that a rapist should have parental rights.

What about the vast majority of rapists who are never convicted of rape? Let's say a woman is raped, gets pregnant and then goes to the police and reports the rape, but there's not enough evidence to convict, so the man never goes to prison (which is what happens with the majority of reported rapes, and an even bigger number are never reported at all). Are you saying that this woman then has a responsibility to include the rapist in any decisions about abortion?

And, again, I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. Sometimes, I think we forget that it takes two to tango, yet only one person gets to make any decisions about the unborn child, but soon as it is born, it is “Show me the money!”

I think that's quite straightforward. When there is no conscious being involved, the decision is made by the person who is carrying it, because there's no third party to care about at that point. Once a conscious being exists and needs paying for, the rights of the parents take a back seat. But what are you actually proposing? You're saying that men should be allowed to effectively abandon any child they don't fancy paying for. So follow that to its logical conclusion. Who is going to pay for these babies in your "devil's advocate" world?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The only people who would argue that a rapist could see his child are Liberals who are the scourge of modern democracy.

What about all of the religious conservatives around the world whose response to rape is to force the woman to marry the rapist?

 

[Chippy_boy]

What about all of the religious conservatives around the world whose response to rape is to force the woman to marry the rapist?

Such people should be shot.

 

[bluethrunthru]

#MyBodyMyChoice

France makes abortion a constitutional right

France becomes the first country to explicitly include the right to terminate a pregnancy in its constitution.

www.bbc.co.uk