Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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The German car makers will make sure that she's kicked out if she sticks to that line.

I think you over estimate the sway they hold over her never mind the other 26 countries and Tusk. No way will the demands or wishes of Merc/BMW/VAG dictate EU policy in the negotiations - when they get started of course. If you truly think they will then you are a fool.
 
Do you think the British government understands the mindset of EU politicians? (It's all about the EU and not about the European people)

The attitude of the EU politicians, IMO, is clearly towards the protection of their increasingly federal model - they have not really bothered with the views or best interests of the EU citizens for an awful long time.

The reason(s) that the UK has been an awkward fit within the 'Union' is because there has remained a significant percentage of our citizens (a majority as it turned out) who are not willing to simply docilely fall in line and can still wish to see the UK free to act as an independent nation rather than part of a collective.

That percentage has decreased over the years though and if this referendum had been left another 5 - 10 years I suspect the majority of UK would have been 'herd like'.
 
Merkel appears to be more than a bit delusional herself if she thinks the uk is just going to agree to the EUs demands. May should set out her stall early after the GE win. Lowering corporation tax for big business to less than the ROI should shake them up abit and strengthen the UKs hand enormously.
 
Merkel appears to be more than a bit delusional herself if she thinks the uk is just going to agree to the EUs demands. May should set out her stall early after the GE win. Lowering corporation tax for big business to less than the ROI should shake them up abit and strengthen the UKs hand enormously.
Just one of many tools the UK has in it's bag. Which the EU does not have.
We are entering a time of brinkmanship which will heighten as the negotiations get closer. Both sides will leak tougher and tougher positions to the press but it's all smoke until the first meeting.
Anyone who's been through an acrimonious divorce will recognise the signs.
 
Merkel appears to be more than a bit delusional herself if she thinks the uk is just going to agree to the EUs demands. May should set out her stall early after the GE win. Lowering corporation tax for big business to less than the ROI should shake them up abit and strengthen the UKs hand enormously.

We are about to get into the reality of how the negotiations will unravel - there has, IMO, been so much nonsense posted on here about the what will happen and the strength of the EU and UK positions. Most of it is just ignorance born out of the desire to see Brexit unravel - well-meaning from the Remainer POV but still all bollocks.

So far the EU has not had to 'do' anything - they have been able to watch the events unfold in the UK in the expectation that we will do their work for them - with the recent events, so long as May gets her necessary majority, they will have to see it through and complete the job themselves.

Just consider what it is that the EU really wants - it is absolutely that the UK remain within the EU. At this point it is not about hard or soft Brexit they still want to see the decision reversed. Referendum outcomes have been reversed in the past but this one is being particularly difficult - but the UK remaining will still be their preferred outcome and they still have reasons to be hopeful.

If you consider their 'negotiating mandate' it is nothing less than a total victory for the EU - there is not really anyway the UK can go through a multi-year process if that mandate truly reflects the EU stance and there is no compromise on their side. This mandate will have been developed probably over the last 8 months, with the expectation that it will be what they use as we go back and forth to parliament for a 'meaningful vote' - which of course would have always been rejected. Then years would have gone by ending up with some device to make us remain - tail between our legs.

In this article:

http://www.irishnews.com/news/repub...-can-to-stop-brexit-says-john-bruton-1010631/

it is easy to see the desperation for retaining the UK within the EU.

I am concerned that with the EU having made this 'hardest of hard' negotiating mandates they may not be able to find the compromises necessary for successful win/win negotiations - especially as they have to keep going back for agreements amongst the EU27.

If they are unable to make compromises I can see this ending up with the UK having to introduce the threat of walk-away' - afterall the EU wold be content to let this all drag on for many years so long as they have our contributions - they will still be hopeful of us not leaving at all but remaining on worse conditions than we had pre-23/06.

I suspect that May might need to bring things to a head long before March 2019. I hope she has the balls to do that if they show no budging.
 
The attitude of the EU politicians, IMO, is clearly towards the protection of their increasingly federal model - they have not really bothered with the views or best interests of the EU citizens for an awful long time.

The reason(s) that the UK has been an awkward fit within the 'Union' is because there has remained a significant percentage of our citizens (a majority as it turned out) who are not willing to simply docilely fall in line and can still wish to see the UK free to act as an independent nation rather than part of a collective.

That percentage has decreased over the years though and if this referendum had been left another 5 - 10 years I suspect the majority of UK would have been 'herd like'.

That's a good post
 
We are about to get into the reality of how the negotiations will unravel - there has, IMO, been so much nonsense posted on here about the what will happen and the strength of the EU and UK positions. Most of it is just ignorance born out of the desire to see Brexit unravel - well-meaning from the Remainer POV but still all bollocks.

So far the EU has not had to 'do' anything - they have been able to watch the events unfold in the UK in the expectation that we will do their work for them - with the recent events, so long as May gets her necessary majority, they will have to see it through and complete the job themselves.

Just consider what it is that the EU really wants - it is absolutely that the UK remain within the EU. At this point it is not about hard or soft Brexit they still want to see the decision reversed. Referendum outcomes have been reversed in the past but this one is being particularly difficult - but the UK remaining will still be their preferred outcome and they still have reasons to be hopeful.

If you consider their 'negotiating mandate' it is nothing less than a total victory for the EU - there is not really anyway the UK can go through a multi-year process if that mandate truly reflects the EU stance and there is no compromise on their side. This mandate will have been developed probably over the last 8 months, with the expectation that it will be what they use as we go back and forth to parliament for a 'meaningful vote' - which of course would have always been rejected. Then years would have gone by ending up with some device to make us remain - tail between our legs.

In this article:

http://www.irishnews.com/news/repub...-can-to-stop-brexit-says-john-bruton-1010631/

it is easy to see the desperation for retaining the UK within the EU.

I am concerned that with the EU having made this 'hardest of hard' negotiating mandates they may not be able to find the compromises necessary for successful win/win negotiations - especially as they have to keep going back for agreements amongst the EU27.

If they are unable to make compromises I can see this ending up with the UK having to introduce the threat of walk-away' - afterall the EU wold be content to let this all drag on for many years so long as they have our contributions - they will still be hopeful of us not leaving at all but remaining on worse conditions than we had pre-23/06.

I suspect that May might need to bring things to a head long before March 2019. I hope she has the balls to do that if they show no budging.

Another good one.

I was thinking along similar lines but it will be all for nought in the end, we will be out by one mechanism or another. I just hope the EU act sensibly otherwise it will get nasty....
 
Merkel appears to be more than a bit delusional herself if she thinks the uk is just going to agree to the EUs demands. May should set out her stall early after the GE win. Lowering corporation tax for big business to less than the ROI should shake them up abit and strengthen the UKs hand enormously.

We are a nation of backstabbing scumbags ...just like the yanks.

We were made for this ;)
 
I wanted to remain but the things you hear from the EU makes it seem like they will lose nothing if we leave while trying to railroad us with demands.

We are one of the top contributors to the group, are they expecting countries with near 50% of their youth unemployed to increase their share? Doubt they are going to be too happy about that when they struggle to sort their own economies. Are the french / germans going to be happy when they learn they have to pay even more to prop up the rest of the EU to cover the fact we are leaving?

They are trying to create a scenario where they hold all the cards. They can try make things as hard for us as possible to send as message to other countries, it wont affect them as politicians but for the citizens within the EU, they are the ones who will suffer any adverse affects of their demands.

Most people just want to get on with their daily lives, if they find out because their EU politicians wouldn't make a reasonable deal they now pay more tax, their food now costs more or their everyday good has increased in price they wont be sympathetic to accept this just because it was the will of the EU politicians, especially when there was always the option for no change.

Long term it could lead to discontent if they do not consider how any deal affects everyday EU citizens lives.
 
Another good one.

I was thinking along similar lines but it will be all for nought in the end, we will be out by one mechanism or another. I just hope the EU act sensibly otherwise it will get nasty....

I hopefully agree, but with the way the EU are 'lining up' there is no give from them. It will likely require a threat of the withdrawal of our money to make them budge. That would mean a failure in the negotiations as it would then indeed turn nasty. That said it will be them that will be being intransigent not us, although I am sure that a few on here will still blame the UK.
 
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