Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

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I agree, not many in the uk know the eu even made an offer over 2 weeks ago. the media/ newspapers in this country have barely mentioned it anywhere. one thing i will say though is apparently ( i might be wrong) for the eu offer - they want the eu courts - ecj to have the final say/ full control, over things like british citizens abroad/eu citizens here and british courts to have no say at all. i think thats ridiculous tbh

Yep. It's fair to disagree with aspects of the EU offer and I presume there will be a degree of horse trading given its a negotiation after all but the absence of debate or discussion about their offer is astonishing.
 
Yep. It's fair to disagree with aspects of the EU offer and I presume there will be a degree of horse trading given its a negotiation after all but the absence of debate or discussion about their offer is astonishing.

your right there will be lots of trading on positions. the absence of debate if astonishing swell. i dont agree with the eu stance on our offer, Giving 3.2m EU nationals the same rights us UK citizens and allowing family members to move here swell,it seems reasonable enough to me. i dont see how thats not a good offer tbh. we haven't even set out the full details either yet.
 
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...it-solidifies-which-half-his-voters-should-he

pretty interesting article on the problems labour and corbyn face.

They will present two faces to the electorate (cue jokes that they always do). Brexit is a Tory owned problem and mess of its own making. The negotiations are a Tory problem. The public identifies Brexit with the Tories not Labour. All Labour needs to do is keep tacking with the prevailing winds and keep out of the shitstorm. Besides this Tory Govt after 7 years has run out of steam and ideas. All Govts do and this one is your classic zombie Govt.

Just to run through 7 years of administration.

Public Services on point of collapse. Notice how many Police Chiefs are popping up saying enough is enough. NHS. Local Councils you name it its gasping for air
Armed Forces. Royal Navy has continued to decline in capital ships. Army numbers are below 80,000. But hey Trident which we will never fucking use.
Workers pay. Wages in negative growth since the crash. Only Greece has negative wage growth. All other EU countries positive growth.
Two referendums and two GE's since 2015. One MP murdered, one PM gone and the current one propped up. Who do we think we are? Italy?
And now Brexit. A two year clock ticking away and the first few months we pissed up the wall. And still the country, Parliament and cabinet are split on the way forward.

And the latest tragedy? Seems we decided to wrap our tower blocks in flammable material and no one is sure whether this was legal or not. Or how many there are. What mind set led to this?

Strong and stable? Yeah right.
 
They will present two faces to the electorate (cue jokes that they always do). Brexit is a Tory owned problem and mess of its own making. The negotiations are a Tory problem. The public identifies Brexit with the Tories not Labour. All Labour needs to do is keep tacking with the prevailing winds and keep out of the shitstorm. Besides this Tory Govt after 7 years has run out of steam and ideas. All Govts do and this one is your classic zombie Govt.

Just to run through 7 years of administration.

Public Services on point of collapse. Notice how many Police Chiefs are popping up saying enough is enough. NHS. Local Councils you name it its gasping for air
Armed Forces. Royal Navy has continued to decline in capital ships. Army numbers are below 80,000. But hey Trident which we will never fucking use.
Workers pay. Wages in negative growth since the crash. Only Greece has negative wage growth. All other EU countries positive growth.
Two referendums and two GE's since 2015. One MP murdered, one PM gone and the current one propped up. Who do we think we are? Italy?
And now Brexit. A two year clock ticking away and the first few months we pissed up the wall. And still the country, Parliament and cabinet are split on the way forward.

And the latest tragedy? Seems we decided to wrap our tower blocks in flammable material and no one is sure whether this was legal or not. Or how many there are. What mind set led to this?

Strong and stable? Yeah right.

You need to check your facts.

NHS spending is up year on year though the NHS has never had enough money and never will.

The Armed forces are responding to the threats we face, we do not need a mass force because the wars in the future are not the wars of past. Either way, the defence budget is still 2% of GDP and GDP is going up meaning the budgets have only gone up, how they are spent is a different story. We have also committed to NATO etc, what do you think Corbyn had planned for the armed forces?

Workers pay is not in negative figures, workers pay on average is at 2% growth which is lower than before but it is growing nevertheless. What you are referring to is the ratio of growth to inflation and again that is purely down to Brexit and the pound, it has nothing to do with the government of the day. I wonder what the figures were pre-Brexit? Maybe check the unemployment figures too?

And the referendums well they came about because the country voted for a Tory government who promised to have one, the country then voted for Brexit, maybe you should be blaming your fellow compatriots who wanted this instead?

As for the tower block scenario well as it turns out they have been wrapping towers up in these materials for the last few decades, hundreds of them. Unfortunately no-one not even the people responsible for manufacturing and installing them nor the people deciding to put them there considered they can burn a building down until now.
 
You need to check your facts.

NHS spending is up year on year though the NHS has never had enough money and never will.

The Armed forces are responding to the threats we face, we do not need a mass force because the wars in the future are not the wars of past. Either way, the defence budget is still 2% of GDP and GDP is going up meaning the budgets have only gone up, how they are spent is a different story. We have also committed to NATO etc, what do you think Corbyn had planned for the armed forces?

Workers pay is not in negative figures, workers pay on average is at 2% growth which is lower than before but it is growing nevertheless. What you are referring to is the ratio of growth to inflation and again that is purely down to Brexit and the pound, it has nothing to do with the government of the day. I wonder what the figures were pre-Brexit? Maybe check the unemployment figures too?

And the referendums well they came about because the country voted for a Tory government who promised to have one, the country then voted for Brexit, maybe you should be blaming your fellow compatriots who wanted this instead?

As for the tower block scenario well as it turns out they have been wrapping towers up in these materials for the last few decades, hundreds of them. Unfortunately no-one not even the people responsible for manufacturing and installing them nor the people deciding to put them there considered they can burn a building down until now.

'Facts' are very often an interpretation of data, and how one interprets data seems to differ significantly in relation to defence.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38971624

I know it's in NATO's methodology, but allowing pension payments to be used when calculating defence expenditure has always struck me as rather odd. I don't feel the slightest bit safer knowing that my father-in-law's monthly beer tokens are helping 'defend the realm'. :-)
 
You need to check your facts.

NHS spending is up year on year though the NHS has never had enough money and never will.

The Armed forces are responding to the threats we face, we do not need a mass force because the wars in the future are not the wars of past. Either way, the defence budget is still 2% of GDP and GDP is going up meaning the budgets have only gone up, how they are spent is a different story. We have also committed to NATO etc, what do you think Corbyn had planned for the armed forces?

Workers pay is not in negative figures, workers pay on average is at 2% growth which is lower than before but it is growing nevertheless. What you are referring to is the ratio of growth to inflation and again that is purely down to Brexit and the pound, it has nothing to do with the government of the day. I wonder what the figures were pre-Brexit? Maybe check the unemployment figures too?

And the referendums well they came about because the country voted for a Tory government who promised to have one, the country then voted for Brexit, maybe you should be blaming your fellow compatriots who wanted this instead?

As for the tower block scenario well as it turns out they have been wrapping towers up in these materials for the last few decades, hundreds of them. Unfortunately no-one not even the people responsible for manufacturing and installing them nor the people deciding to put them there considered they can burn a building down until now.

The NHS is not funded adequately to meet the needs of the population. Same with social care and a host of other issues.

Between 2007 and 2015 real wages declined by over 10% in the UK. Matched only by Greece. In Germany they increased by 14% and in France by 11%. After the financial crash wages fell off a cliff and they still haven't recovered in the UK.

Our armed forces are been cut to the bone. Ditto the police. This is under a Tory administration. When the patient is dying the argument that the other guy would not be any better isn't an argument. The patient is still fucking dying.

Their is plenty of blame to go round re the tower blocks. I am sure Corbyn will have no qualms about spearing Blair and New Labour with a proportion of the blame. Frankly I don't give a shit who gets clobbered and from which side. If they are culpable then so be it.

As for the referendum and all the shit that flows from it as I said its Tory owned. They promised it. They delivered it. They own it.
 
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