CL Last 16 (Dinamo Kiev) (NO City away fans) (24 feb and 15 mar)

Silvas_Left_Foot said:
Thank you for taking the time to post that, a really interesting read and very informative. My condolences for the deaths of anyone that you knew.
About city, why is it that you see us as one of the weaker teams?
Click to expand...

As a blue I would say it is because we flatter to receive on too regular a basis. Kiev will see us as beatable and to be fair to them they should because we are very capable of shitting the bed.

(We won't shit the bed tho, we will go through)
 
Silvas_Left_Foot said:
Thank you for taking the time to post that, a really interesting read and very informative. My condolences for the deaths of anyone that you knew.
About city, why is it that you see us as one of the weaker teams?
Click to expand...

Thank you and you are welcome.

Weaker is not a proper word here, I'd say. More desirable is closer to the general opinion here.
Logic is quite simple:

1. Us. Dinamo in current shape, restored by Sergiy Rebrov one season ago, after 5 years without 1st place in Ukrainan premier league.
- Strong points: quite experienced squad and, probably, the most balanced one in the last 5-10 years.
Keeper - Shovkovsky, 40 years old, seen CL 1/2 against Munchen in 1999, started playing in 1995.
Defence - Khacheridy, probably one of the best European CBs current, plus Dragovich - slightly weaker Austrian international.
Midfield - mostly Ukrainan bunch - Yarmolenko AMR (will be sold for 20M GBP+ soon), Husev (15 seasons with the club) or Gonzales AML Deep lying playmaker - Rybalka, CMs: Garmash (best Ukrainian box to box midfielder), Sidorchuk or Buyalskiy.
Attack - Moraes (Brazilian back-up list for the national team), Teodorchik (Polish substitute for Levandovskiy). Kravets (another kiev-academy guy that had a perfect EL spell against Valencia 7 years ago, is very pacy but mediocre).

All in all - 6-8 players from Kiev academy with perfect understanding, discipline and speedy counter-attacks. Good defence, as I mentioned before, but average attack that heavily relies on midfield, not strikers. Local guys under Rebrov proved to be better than: Velosu (Portugese DM, subsitute player at the moment, to be sold to Italy), Belhanda (Moroccan international, to be bought by French clubs this winter), Mbokani (loaned out to Norwich, to be sold to Galatasaray).
Main problem - lack of final strike and definite striker.

2. Possible opponents:

Barcelona - almost impossible to compete against them. Very high possession and incredible attack.
Bayern - even worse than Barcelona due to stronger defence. Only plus - they also have a winter break and are often flimsy in right before or after New year
Real - almost as hard to beat as Barcelona, but doable
Chelsea - can't play them - been in the same group.
Atletico - something like Real madrid but with nastier defence and Italian tactics (park the bus in a proper, non=Chelsea way);
Man City - as (in some cases - even more) rich as teams above with a tremendous squad, but 1) average coach, 2) weak defence, 3) unstable attack 4) too many players that result in average mutual understanding and fluency of play (defence <> attack);
Wolfsburg - best option (Zenith is not available. Pretty the same level with Dinamo. They have slightly better attack but weaker defence;
Zenith - can't play them due to seeding of Russian and Ukrainian teams. Would have been the best option;
 
Machetero said:
Funny to read some post here.

Firstly - regarding safety in Kiev and 'civil war'.
It is as safe. At least much more safe than living in Brixton London. Combat zone is some 300 miles to the east.
'Civil war'- it's not. It's a war with Russian, hybrid, phoney, undeclared - you name it. I'm 33 and I returned to Kiev and my work (TV) and my family last March after serving one year in the East. Officer of a signal unit (Royal Corps of Signals is your equivalent) in 30th mechanised brigade. Not a professional soldier, just (as every graduate here) had military specialisation according to my uni diploma and got drafted (mandatory)... There are (were) Russians, Chechens, all sort of professional and voluntary shit plus oodles of tanks, apc's petrol and military from our Eastern neighbour, that came across the border to 'protect' Russian language (my primary language) and people of Russian ethnicity (me being one) from Ukrainian 'fasits'. Thanks I don't need such 'protection' and I will never forgive them my brothers in arms killed in the heat of August 2014 and January 2015.

Regarding rasism of our fans. There were 4(four) idiots from ultras fan sector that tried to beat two black supporters of Dinamo. They were stopped by other supporters, but not quickly enough. Those guys were taken by police by now. Everyone is sad that this thing happened and we hope that UEFA will approve our appeal.

As for the future game - yes, indeed, everybody is happy here, since Man City was considered second best (after Wolfsburg) draw for us. It will be really hard, but having one of the best defence lines in this CL - we'll try our best.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you made it through unscathed mate!

I've been trying to emphasise to people on here and elsewhere the extent of the Russian aggression in Ukraine, like you said, pretty much laughable to describe it as a civil war. It was fostered and entirely organised by Russia from the moment Maidan was successful in toppling Yanukovych. War was more or less their sole agenda from that moment, and without Russia it would've never happened. It wasn't that long ago there were openly ran recruiting centres for the 'rebel' battalions in Moscow. Not to mention serving Russian soldiers proven to have operated within Ukrainian territory now, without a shadow of a doubt. Russian armour and tanks too.

Anyone who can't see that now is willingly blind to reality, or has an agenda to undermine/dismiss it.

The extent of the Russian propaganda really is something though, I know it was ubiquitous in the East of Ukraine, and that was central to the beginning of open conflict. But you'd be surprised by the grip the Russian propaganda has even in Western Europe and in America, lots of people are taken in by it, especially given a climate of distrust many have for their own Western governments. When MH17 was shot down it was fairly obvious who was responsible, but you'd be amazed at how many people swallowed the Russian led disinformation and obfuscation that Ukrainian forces were somehow responsible, then there were all the parroted conspiracies to further obfuscate the truth.

Russia knows how to utilise the distrust many here in the West have for their governments for its own gain. Russia Today is almost mainstream here now.

Really quite bizarre, from my perspective.

Anyway, have a good trip if you come over here mate, and I hope peace finds your country soon.

Putin Huylo!
 
Machetero said:
Thank you and you are welcome.

Weaker is not a proper word here, I'd say. More desirable is closer to the general opinion here.
Logic is quite simple:

1. Us. Dinamo in current shape, restored by Sergiy Rebrov one season ago, after 5 years without 1st place in Ukrainan premier league.
- Strong points: quite experienced squad and, probably, the most balanced one in the last 5-10 years.
Keeper - Shovkovsky, 40 years old, seen CL 1/2 against Munchen in 1999, started playing in 1995.
Defence - Khacheridy, probably one of the best European CBs current, plus Dragovich - slightly weaker Austrian international.
Midfield - mostly Ukrainan bunch - Yarmolenko AMR (will be sold for 20M GBP+ soon), Husev (15 seasons with the club) or Gonzales AML Deep lying playmaker - Rybalka, CMs: Garmash (best Ukrainian box to box midfielder), Sidorchuk or Buyalskiy.
Attack - Moraes (Brazilian back-up list for the national team), Teodorchik (Polish substitute for Levandovskiy). Kravets (another kiev-academy guy that had a perfect EL spell against Valencia 7 years ago, is very pacy but mediocre).

All in all - 6-8 players from Kiev academy with perfect understanding, discipline and speedy counter-attacks. Good defence, as I mentioned before, but average attack that heavily relies on midfield, not strikers. Local guys under Rebrov proved to be better than: Velosu (Portugese DM, subsitute player at the moment, to be sold to Italy), Belhanda (Moroccan international, to be bought by French clubs this winter), Mbokani (loaned out to Norwich, to be sold to Galatasaray).
Main problem - lack of final strike and definite striker.

2. Possible opponents:

Barcelona - almost impossible to compete against them. Very high possession and incredible attack.
Bayern - even worse than Barcelona due to stronger defence. Only plus - they also have a winter break and are often flimsy in right before or after New year
Real - almost as hard to beat as Barcelona, but doable
Chelsea - can't play them - been in the same group.
Atletico - something like Real madrid but with nastier defence and Italian tactics (park the bus in a proper, non=Chelsea way);
Man City - as (in some cases - even more) rich as teams above with a tremendous squad, but 1) average coach, 2) weak defence, 3) unstable attack 4) too many players that result in average mutual understanding and fluency of play (defence <> attack);
Wolfsburg - best option (Zenith is not available. Pretty the same level with Dinamo. They have slightly better attack but weaker defence;
Zenith - can't play them due to seeding of Russian and Ukrainian teams. Would have been the best option;
Click to expand...

That's a really annoyingly accurate summary.
 
Machetero said:
Thank you and you are welcome.

Weaker is not a proper word here, I'd say. More desirable is closer to the general opinion here.
Logic is quite simple:

1. Us. Dinamo in current shape, restored by Sergiy Rebrov one season ago, after 5 years without 1st place in Ukrainan premier league.
- Strong points: quite experienced squad and, probably, the most balanced one in the last 5-10 years.
Keeper - Shovkovsky, 40 years old, seen CL 1/2 against Munchen in 1999, started playing in 1995.
Defence - Khacheridy, probably one of the best European CBs current, plus Dragovich - slightly weaker Austrian international.
Midfield - mostly Ukrainan bunch - Yarmolenko AMR (will be sold for 20M GBP+ soon), Husev (15 seasons with the club) or Gonzales AML Deep lying playmaker - Rybalka, CMs: Garmash (best Ukrainian box to box midfielder), Sidorchuk or Buyalskiy.
Attack - Moraes (Brazilian back-up list for the national team), Teodorchik (Polish substitute for Levandovskiy). Kravets (another kiev-academy guy that had a perfect EL spell against Valencia 7 years ago, is very pacy but mediocre).

All in all - 6-8 players from Kiev academy with perfect understanding, discipline and speedy counter-attacks. Good defence, as I mentioned before, but average attack that heavily relies on midfield, not strikers. Local guys under Rebrov proved to be better than: Velosu (Portugese DM, subsitute player at the moment, to be sold to Italy), Belhanda (Moroccan international, to be bought by French clubs this winter), Mbokani (loaned out to Norwich, to be sold to Galatasaray).
Main problem - lack of final strike and definite striker.

2. Possible opponents:

Barcelona - almost impossible to compete against them. Very high possession and incredible attack.
Bayern - even worse than Barcelona due to stronger defence. Only plus - they also have a winter break and are often flimsy in right before or after New year
Real - almost as hard to beat as Barcelona, but doable
Chelsea - can't play them - been in the same group.
Atletico - something like Real madrid but with nastier defence and Italian tactics (park the bus in a proper, non=Chelsea way);
Man City - as (in some cases - even more) rich as teams above with a tremendous squad, but 1) average coach, 2) weak defence, 3) unstable attack 4) too many players that result in average mutual understanding and fluency of play (defence <> attack);
Wolfsburg - best option (Zenith is not available. Pretty the same level with Dinamo. They have slightly better attack but weaker defence;
Zenith - can't play them due to seeding of Russian and Ukrainian teams. Would have been the best option;
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that.
 
According to The Times, City officials have been told that Kiev do not have a right of appeal. Seeking clarification today.
 
Machetero said:
Sure, president will do everything possible. It's first time in 16 years that we are in CL play-off and very important for kievites moral-vise. Plus elder brother of the president is top manager of UEFA - hope he'll intervene. Playing without supporters makes football pointless.
As for the supporters present at the game with Maccabli - those were indeed UEFA hospitality seats. About 400 (maybe less - depend on venue) there are - devided between clubs, broadcasters and UEFA partners in the territory. Been in such area at Stamford.
Click to expand...

Yes but i didn't know Uefa hospitality would be supporting Kiev?
 
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