Clown car defending

[trevorriley]

For what it's worth, I think Otamendi & Mangala could replace most of the other cb pairings & not harm the teams at all, in fact improve most.

But they struggle in this kind of team & may also struggle under Pep.

This is true, glad others see it... Sunday was a classic case where the best back 2 would have had problems.

I feel sorry for Otamendi, he stays fit, plays week in week out never resting, then gets the blame for poor defence when its the front lot in front that put us in the shit. I think without him it would have been fr worse.

 

[Neville Kneville]

This is true, glad others see it... Sunday was a classic case where the best back 2 would have had problems.

I feel sorry for Otamendi, he stays fit, plays week in week out never resting, then gets the blame for poor defence when its the front lot in front that put us in the shit. I think without him it would have been fr worse.

I think he's the kind of player you want at Atletico in a team built from the back. And next to a dominant aerial cb like Godin. Mangala has more pace & in theory should be more suited to Pellegrini's suicidal methods, but often looks uncomfortable & isn't as dominant in the air as he looks like he would be either. Both ideally need to play next to a dominant cb in a solid kind of team imo. Otamendi is an excellent tackler but tends to sit down at times when the defence is exposed. Only need to do that once in a game & it's a scoring chance. This system exposes his worst aspects. Mancini's style defending would suit both I should imagine.

Whether Pep will be able to use them, I have no idea.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Is this how far we've regressed? Our previous manager had to do the very same back in 2009-2010.

Are you suggesting all his formational and strategic work has been undone to our detriment?

Judging by the hammerings against Spurs (A), Liverpool (H & A) and Southampton (A) + the fact we have lost 10 League games this season tells me the answer to that question is yes, we have regressed. Badly.

 

[Dribble]

Judging by the hammerings against Spurs (A), Liverpool (H & A) and Southampton (A) + the fact we have lost 10 League games this season tells me the answer to that question is yes, we have regressed. Badly.

And some would have us believe that most of this is down to the shit players bought by our under-performing DoF Txiki Begiristain.

2008-09 - 50 points (Mark Hughes)
2009-10 - 67 points (Mark Hughes/Mancini)
2010-11 - 71 points (FAC) (Mancini)
2011-12 - 89 points (C) (Mancini)
2012-13 - 78 points (Mancini - Kidd in charge for last two matches of 2012-2013 - P 2 - W 1 - L 1)
2013-14 - 86 points (C/CoC) (Pellegrini)
2014-15 - 79 points (Pellegrini)
2015-16 - P 36 W19 D7 L10 - 64-70 points (CoC/UCL semis) (Pellegrini)

Roberto Mancini - 2010-2013 - 238 points (Kidd in charge for last two matches of 2012-2013 - P 2 - W 1 - L 1)
Manuel Pellegrini - 2013-2016 - 229 points (235 maximum)

Both managers have amassed broadly similar points totals, but they started from vastly different positions. The anomaly is the 2012-2013 season where it has now been revealed that we were in talks with Pep from as far back as then which will probably explain Mancini's demeanour as he knew plans were afoot to oust him come what may. The club was in turmoil from February 2013 when Mancini was asked during a press conference to comment on rumours circulating in Spain that he was to be replaced by Pellegrini at the end of the season. He told them to fuck off and it was downhill from thereon in. Everyone knew he was going on the morning of the FA Cup final and he was officially sacked two days later with Kidd taking charge for the final two league games.

In November 2015, Pep Guardiola confirmed he was not going to renew his contract with Bayern and would instead be managing in the Premier League from season 2016-2017 at an unnamed club. City with their Pep connections, Chelsea and ManUre were mentioned as the possible destination as was Arsenal, but in February 2016 Pellegrini confirmed the option of his one year contract extension was not going to be activated and that Guardiola was indeed going to become City's next manager on a 3 year contract. This anomaly could probably have had an effect on our form as City fell away from the title race, however aside from the first 5 games of the season our form had been patchy and disappointing at best anyway.

These are the statistics as they stand and to a casual observer there isn't that much between them with Pellegrini edging it with his 2nd CoC win. However the Premier League points totals and performances are the yardstick which tell the true tale of the tape and there is an undeniable linear decline in our performances and points totals during Manuel's time here. FFP has played a part and so have injuries but on the plus side investment has continued and the likes of Otamendi, KDB, Sterling, Mangala, Sagna (free) have been acquired over this period not to mention Jovetic and Negredo which balances out the effects of FFP considering the squad we already had.

Overall the one thing that statistics can't hide is what the fans see with their own eyes on a weekly basis. Good players don't become bad ones overnight and the DoF can influence match days only so much as it's really down to every manager to play the hand he is dealt to the best of his ability as Claudio Ranieri has just proved. How Manuel will be remembered will depend on the next 3-4 matches but the one thing I don't think will be forgotten is our slide from the defensively rock solid and the creative attacking Manchester City Manuel inherited to the defensively suspect and creatively inconsistent Manchester City Pep will inherit.

Was the wait for Pep worth it? Only time will tell.

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

I think he's the kind of player you want at Atletico in a team built from the back. And next to a dominant aerial cb like Godin. Mangala has more pace & in theory should be more suited to Pellegrini's suicidal methods, but often looks uncomfortable & isn't as dominant in the air as he looks like he would be either. Both ideally need to play next to a dominant cb in a solid kind of team imo. Otamendi is an excellent tackler but tends to sit down at times when the defence is exposed. Only need to do that once in a game & it's a scoring chance. This system exposes his worst aspects. Mancini's style defending would suit both I should imagine.

Whether Pep will be able to use them, I have no idea.

Mangala's problems seem to worsen when Kolarov is playing, as he has to be CB and LB.

 

[ono]

Our main defensive problem has been the same all season. Too many players leave their position to chase the ball. The good sides pass around the one man press and occupy the space left by the presser.

Fernandinho is the biggest culprit in midfield and Otamendi likewise in defence. The problem is, when this problem arises in midfield, Otamendi tends to step out of his position to fill the void, seemingly unaware that he is committing the same mistake. The good teams play through it, hence why we look so vulnerable against anybody in the top 8.

We can get away with this type of singular press when we play a midfield 3, as we have somebody to sit and occupy the space ahead of the centre back (so long as he isn't the presser).

I'm not having a pop at Fernandinho by the way. His best attribute is probably his ability to intercept and counter. The blame lies with the manager. If he lines up with such an aggressive presser, he either needs to work on a team pressing system or he needs to set us up so a failed press doesn't leave us exposed. The easiest way of doing this is to deploy a sitting player to sit between the midfield and defence, and instruct him to contain rather than to press. Sounds simple because it is simple.

So, theoretically speaking, if Fernandinho's press is unsuccessful and he is simply passed round, the sitting player positions himself in a way which doesn't allow the ball carrier to run directly at the centre back. That way, Otamendi doesn't get the itch to charge out of position like a mad man.

The sitting player doesn't even have to be a bruising tackler. If anything you want somebody who can just slow down the opposition without diving in and selling himself or giving away dangerous free kicks. If that player can also control the game with his on-ball ability, that would be a massive bonus as it would stop Yaya from dropping alongside the centre backs to kick start possession (a move that leaves us lighter in attacking positions given we have less players ahead of the ball).