Discussion: Txiki Begiristain (2014/15)

[BlueAnorak]

It is different from normal UK businesses in that Txiki, Pellers (and Marwood come to that) do not control the day to day finances of the company - they are there to deliver product excellence. Something that other UK businesses should consider - but generally don't as finance is king and everything else is considered an irrelevance. One of the main reasons why UK PLC in general has gone down the pan since the 60's.

I also never said it was the Sheikh doing the assessing. He will make a decision based on the advice of others. The advice of Simon Pearce will be of particular relevance here.

 

[Shaelumstash]

People need to get over this inferiority complex about us being liccul City, thinking we're lucky to have these two executives from the mighty Barcelona!

We're a big club in our own right, we're a very attractive proposition for any potential CEO or DoF. While I'm glad they're at the club, Sorriano and Txiki aren't doing us a favour, they're fortunate to be working at such a successful and growing club.

The people who slag Garry Cook and Mancini are the people who are too concerned about what other people think. Garry's gaffes in the press, Mancini doesn't say hello to the tea lady.

Get over the inferiority, judge people on their merits and achievements. By any measure, Garry Cook's, Mancini's and Sorriano's achievements have been outstanding while at the club, so they should be judged as successful. Txiki has had a bit of a mixed bag for us so far, some good, some bad, so he should be judged as so.

Let's not judge him as "Txiki Bergiristan, DoF for the most successful club side in history" because it makes us feel important. Let's judge him on what he's actually done at City. A fairly promising start, with lots of room for improvement.

 

[BillyShears]

Absolutely, perfectly, hit the nail right on the head.

Past performance is certainly part of the decision but like every investor is repeatedly told, past performance is not an indicator of future returns and other factors have to be taken into context before parting with your money. Having a solid track record is important but only indicative of something over many many points of data and even then there's no guarantees of the future.

As far as his City career is concerned, I have repeatedly said that we don't have the data yet to form a judgement and won't do for a good few years because his job is in squad building, squad management and expanding the footballing philosophy

Two excellent posts I have to say. The kind of stuff that people should really take the time to digest and think about.

I think we're really blessed in that at the very top we have Sheikh Mansour - someone who has from day one taken a hands off approach to the way in which the club is run whilst employing the best possible people to actually run it day to day and make the important decisions. We're lucky to have Khaldoon, Ferran, Txiki, and the rest of the board. I believe we're the best run club in the league and arguably one of the best run in the whole world. That's a testament to all those guys.

 

[blueinsa]

The people who slag Garry Cook and Mancini are the people who are too concerned about what other people think. Garry's gaffes in the press, Mancini doesn't say hello to the tea lady.

Plumbing ever deeper depths i see pmsl.

 

[Damocles]

People need to get over this inferiority complex about us being liccul City, thinking we're lucky to have these two executives from the mighty Barcelona!

I don't have an inferiority complex, and it's a truly ridiculous assertion.

I want City to be the biggest and best football club in the world. To achieve this you need the absolute best people running it. In my fairly considered opinion the best CEO in world football is Ferran Soriano and the best DoF in world football is Txiki Begiristain. You'll notice that I outright stated this before either of them were even linked here let alone joined. Soriano in particularly is somebody who I believe it next only to Martin Edwards in terms of having a vision of where football is going over the next 20 years and positioning his club right at the very centre of it.

When you have what you consider to be the best executives in football and then see a bunch of no marks who haven't an actual clue about football administration slagging them off because Fernando miskicked a ball a few times then it becomes frustrating.

And maybe you should give the forum a miss if we do sign Pogba as the amount of people happy (including myself) that we would have beaten the very best around like Barcelona to a top target will be cause for celebration, and you might mistake this as an inferiority complex.

 

[NQCitizen]

Absolutely, perfectly, hit the nail right on the head.

Past performance is certainly part of the decision but like every investor is repeatedly told, past performance is not an indicator of future returns and other factors have to be taken into context before parting with your money. Having a solid track record is important but only indicative of something over many many points of data and even then there's no guarantees of the future.

As far as his City career is concerned, I have repeatedly said that we don't have the data yet to form a judgement and won't do for a good few years because his job is in squad building, squad management and expanding the footballing philosophy

Wouldn't this suggest large businesses could never sack anyone unless they have years of data to support their convictions?

I'm hoping Ferran does actually have some way of knowing how well Txiki is doing each season.

 

[Damocles]

Wouldn't this suggest large businesses could never sack anyone unless they have years of data to support their convictions?

No, it means that whilst past performance is one of the ways in which you judge a person's future ability it is not the only criteria. They will know what decisions were taken and why in a much larger detail and it is the actual lack of faith in the decision making that would cause him to be sacked.

You don't start distrusting somebody because of a season or two.

 

[NQCitizen]

No, it means that whilst past performance is one of the ways in which you judge a person's future ability it is not the only criteria. They will know what decisions were taken and why in a much larger detail and it is the actual lack of faith in the decision making that would cause him to be sacked.

You don't start distrusting somebody because of a season or two.

Although that does depend on what targets that individual had been set. I'm sure hypothetically two bad windows would be enough to destabilise a D o F's position, if he appeared to fail to close deals that those above him deemed achievable. I respect all you've said about corporate structure (and I don't disagree) but I imagine in a scenario as personality driven as transfer negotiations there is perhaps a necessity to act quicker with those roles than less outward facing individuals.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I don't have an inferiority complex, and it's a truly ridiculous assertion.

I want City to be the biggest and best football club in the world. To achieve this you need the absolute best people running it. In my fairly considered opinion the best CEO in world football is Ferran Soriano and the best DoF in world football is Txiki Begiristain. You'll notice that I outright stated this before either of them were even linked here let alone joined. Soriano in particularly is somebody who I believe it next only to Martin Edwards in terms of having a vision of where football is going over the next 20 years and positioning his club right at the very centre of it.

When you have what you consider to be the best executives in football and then see a bunch of no marks who haven't an actual clue about football administration slagging them off because Fernando miskicked a ball a few times then it becomes frustrating.

And maybe you should give the forum a miss if we do sign Pogba as the amount of people happy (including myself) that we would have beaten the very best around like Barcelona to a top target will be cause for celebration, and you might mistake this as an inferiority complex.

Well that was a very well considered post. I notice you selectivly quote my post so you can attack the strawman as opposed to my actual point. You should know better.

If you did read my post, you'll notice I said Sorriano was doing an outstanding job. I said Txiki came with a fantastic reputation. For the record, I agree that if I could have chosen any two executives to fill those two roles I would have also chosen those two.

However, my actual point, and not the strawman one you have created, is that no matter a persons reputation, or status, they should be judged on performance. Txiki's performance at City has been ok so far. Not terrible, not fantastic either.

Now you can call me a "no mark" all you like, but this is precisely the point I'm making. The likes of you think your status as a mod on a forum gives you some kind of status or gravitas. I disagree. I judge everyone's posts on here on the content of their point, not on spelling, grammar, or post count.

Similarly with Txiki, I judge his performance at City based on his performance at City, not how important it makes me feel that he once worked at Barcelona.

I still think Txiki is the best man for the job, I wouldn't swap him. I hope he does deliver Pogba and others, and goes on to help deliver huge success at City. But if I was judging his performance at City up to now I'd go B-.

 

[kit's blue]

I don't understand the criticism of any of the clubs management. The hopes and dreams I held for Maine Roads redevelopment have been blown away by the Etihad, and the future development , will I'm sure just keep taking my breath away. The players I watch now are beyond my wildest dreams and like the stadium I think will just get better and better. The CFA is unbelievable and helps the players achieve much more than Platt Lane or Carrington could and in time I'm sure will start providing the quality academy players we hope for. In my opinion all those involved in directing City's future are doing a very good job . There have and will be times when we could have done better but overall the progression in everything ,stadium , players and facilities just keeps improving .