Donald Trump

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Damo you're reaching but here's some info that I've completely made up about a guy I've never met to prove my point.

Alright mate.

You ARE reaching, though!! He mocks EVERYONE who has a solid argument against him. He's a needy woman as you can tell by his rally talking points!!

Has he raised anything new or is he STILL in campaign mode? He's claiming job growth that is not his AND there are some Trumpets that are in belief that his 'Trumpcare' is already in effect!!

His failed ventures prove he's not as great as he says he is and that most of his money comes from simply lending his name to projects.

Show me that he has his own great business acumen and doesn't simply delegate things out to 'geeks and dorks' to do his bidding!!
 
You ARE reaching, though!! He mocks EVERYONE who has a solid argument against him. He's a needy woman as you can tell by his rally talking points!!

Has he raised anything new or is he STILL in campaign mode? He's claiming job growth that is not his AND there are some Trumpets that are in belief that his 'Trumpcare' is already in effect!!

His failed ventures prove he's not as great as he says he is and that most of his money comes from simply lending his name to projects.

Show me that he has his own great business acumen and doesn't simply delegate things out to 'geeks and dorks' to do his bidding!!

Whatever you think of Trump, your final sentence provides you with the answer you seek regarding his business acumen, delegating to geeks and dorks who make him a shed load of money, makes him a very astute businessman indeed...!
 
what I have noticed is he really only works on the stump - making speeches being the centre of attention is all he wants. He can't govern - he doesn't understand how to. He's unlikely to come good on all his promises because its not TrumpsAmerica Inc its a country - he can't snap his finger and have things happen. Then his late night tweets suddenly cause bother - previously he did it and everybody put it down to Nutty Donald - now its what POTUS says and his press secretary tries to tell everyone not to take him literally - he's the President FFS !!

There will be four more years of Trump on the stump and Fox Sake News showing his every rally live every night - like he is campaigning for the election he already won last November because thats where they know their poster child hits all the buttons of their demographic so they will lap it up. Poll ratings of 37% a couple of months into the role shows the story - some of his supporters on the fringes are seeing they were sold a pup and having second thoughts.
 
I saw a bit of his rally last night,quite why he is still in campaign mode i don't no but he said Obama care about 20 times,at one point saying O.B.A.M.A,on the day he was shot down about accusing Obama of wire tapping him he still had to get some digs in,he is obsessed and it's not healthy or normal behaviour,he holds a grudge about anyone who stands up to him
 
what I have noticed is he really only works on the stump - making speeches being the centre of attention is all he wants. He can't govern - he doesn't understand how to. He's unlikely to come good on all his promises because its not TrumpsAmerica Inc its a country - he can't snap his finger and have things happen. Then his late night tweets suddenly cause bother - previously he did it and everybody put it down to Nutty Donald - now its what POTUS says and his press secretary tries to tell everyone not to take him literally - he's the President FFS !!

There will be four more years of Trump on the stump and Fox Sake News showing his every rally live every night - like he is campaigning for the election he already won last November because thats where they know their poster child hits all the buttons of their demographic so they will lap it up. Poll ratings of 37% a couple of months into the role shows the story - some of his supporters on the fringes are seeing they were sold a pup and having second thoughts.


That’s a fairly good summary. He will fail to make things happen and after a while, his aspirational language will start to look hollow. When you think back to his big pitch it revolved around extremist rhetoric; lock her up, build a wall, ban muslims and drain the swamp. Give it 12 months and he will have done nothing to lock her up, built no wall, muslims will continue to enter America and the swamp will look more festered than ever. The fringe of his support base will start to wane as the evidence mounts that he is a compulsive liar and in this for himself. The key will be how much support he will continue to have at fox if his ratings tumble, he only retains 37% support because of his support in the right wing media and they are straining to ignore his lies. If they turn on him they could destroy him. News channels love big stories and finding the smoking gun that will initiate the demise of Trump must be like a wholly grail amongst journalists at the moment.
 
That’s a fairly good summary. He will fail to make things happen and after a while, his aspirational language will start to look hollow. When you think back to his big pitch it revolved around extremist rhetoric; lock her up, build a wall, ban muslims and drain the swamp. Give it 12 months and he will have done nothing to lock her up, built no wall, muslims will continue to enter America and the swamp will look more festered than ever. The fringe of his support base will start to wane as the evidence mounts that he is a compulsive liar and in this for himself. The key will be how much support he will continue to have at fox if his ratings tumble, he only retains 37% support because of his support in the right wing media and they are straining to ignore his lies. If they turn on him they could destroy him. News channels love big stories and finding the smoking gun that will initiate the demise of Trump must be like a wholly grail amongst journalists at the moment.


News channels love big stories and finding the smoking gun that will initiate the demise of Trump must be like a wholly grail amongst journalists at themoment.

Well said.

Saying everything will be terrific, the best it's ever been, in the history of history and even before that, without actually doing anything can only last so long, even with his Fox Sake News moronic demographic.

USA USA USA USA

I wonder how many times you need to shout that before everything is terrific?

I'm guessing a few.
 
I blame people for being scared and angry and overreacting. Of course I do, your emotions are entirely under your control and if you lose your rationality to feed into them then that's your fault.

THE ENTIRE POINT of left wing politics is rational evidence based politics which protect those who most need it and strives for greater equality. Literally, the entire point.

If you're acting like most of the people in this thread, you're not doing that any more. You're creating your own boogeyman using the odd quote here, the odd action there, to feed into it then pointing at it and saying look how scary this is. The amount of people I've lost respect for since Brexit happened grows every single day because they're no different from Tea Partiers really. They were just on my side politically for a little while - they never actually had any form of rationality, I just mistook them for people who did because they had the right conclusions. Now that the political will has swung against them they're acting like fucking idiots. The way people act towards Trump is fucking embarrassing.

Either you believe in rational evidence based political debate or you don't. It doesn't have a side. That's the biggest thing I've taken away from the rise of the alt-right and insane-liberal over the course of the last year or so. So yeah, instead of sitting here watching everybody masturbate, I will take people to task and ask them to front their bullshit because God knows somebody needs to.

Let me sum up what I think you're saying. In essence, then, what you see is extremist (puritanical) elements of both wings who have taken over the stump, rendering rational, evidence-based political debate less meaningful or important to choice-making by voters and for decision-making (read: resource allocation) by elected officials alike. And this is perhaps bound to happen when the fabric between classes -- meaning the spread of income inequality as I see it -- becomes especially torn; I. E. The spread is especially wide. You are trying to look rationally at WHY Trump was elected and what underlying issues politicians of all stripes should be solving and the message that his election sends rather than the instrument of that message; I. E. Trump.
 
Of course Trump won't turn into Hitler. The democratic structures in the USA and the wide availability of information will stop that. I'm obviously not comparing what Trump has done in 2 months with what Hitler did in 12 years but you'd have to be blind not to notice the same techniques of propaganda and lies being used by Trump to try and consolidate power and mute opposition in his early days in office. Trump will fail so we will never know what he is really capable of.

In Hitler's early days in Office, he/the Nazis dismantled the press by taking them over, attacking their printing presses and killing their journalists. Trump's Press Secretary, who gives a press conference every single day, didn't invite 4 news outlets to a briefing where invitations are traditionally rotated, and he often insults them for insulting him.

Hitler grabbed hold of the "stab in the back" narrative from the First World War that stated that as Germany was fighting in France, the homefront gave up on them. In this he blamed Jewish conspiracies then arrested many Jews and sent them into concentration camps for being traitors. Trump ordered a ban on new refugees from 6 countries which the Obama State Department declared as terrorist hotspots.

So no, I don't see the comparisons in techniques and find the comparison in itself gross.
 
I blame people for being scared and angry and overreacting. Of course I do, your emotions are entirely under your control and if you lose your rationality to feed into them then that's your fault.

THE ENTIRE POINT of left wing politics is rational evidence based politics which protect those who most need it and strives for greater equality. Literally, the entire point.

If you're acting like most of the people in this thread, you're not doing that any more. You're creating your own boogeyman using the odd quote here, the odd action there, to feed into it then pointing at it and saying look how scary this is. The amount of people I've lost respect for since Brexit happened grows every single day because they're no different from Tea Partiers really. They were just on my side politically for a little while - they never actually had any form of rationality, I just mistook them for people who did because they had the right conclusions. Now that the political will has swung against them they're acting like fucking idiots. The way people act towards Trump is fucking embarrassing.

Either you believe in rational evidence based political debate or you don't. It doesn't have a side. That's the biggest thing I've taken away from the rise of the alt-right and insane-liberal over the course of the last year or so. So yeah, instead of sitting here watching everybody masturbate, I will take people to task and ask them to front their bullshit because God knows somebody needs to.
That gives a bit of context to what you write, I guess. Like you are the one who knows what truth is and how to get there - anyone that disagrees with you is talking bullshit and so can be righteously 'taken to task' until they come back into alignment with your truth. Good luck with that and, well, no wonder you come across as a little 'upset' on occasion. Have a great day and enjoy the fruits of your labour :)
 
Let me sum up what I think you're saying. In essence, then, what you see is extremist (puritanical) elements of both wings who have taken over the stump, rendering rational, evidence-based political debate less meaningful or important to choice-making by voters and for decision-making (read: resource allocation) by elected officials alike. And this is perhaps bound to happen when the fabric between classes -- meaning the spread of income inequality as I see it -- becomes especially torn; I. E. The spread is especially wide. You are trying to look rationally at WHY Trump was elected and what underlying issues politicians of all stripes should be solving and the message that his election sends rather than the instrument of that message; I. E. Trump.

That's essentially it yes. I think most of Trump, Brexit, and also Black Lives Matter and fringe left groups are all a response to economic and political inequality rather than the somewhat screeching world views that are getting belted out from all corners, deafening the populace. The "have-nots" all seem to be turning on each other and rather than looking at billionaires like Trump and bankers like Farage as the enemy, we're embracing them and their rhetoric.

Whichever way you look at it, it is undeniable that both Brexit and Trump struck a chord with millions of people. Calling Trump a demagogue cult figure or all of his supporters idiot racists is not only patronising to those people but also is pointless simplification that achieves nothing. I thought Trump would lose and lose heavily. I thought UKIP would be a nothing party in the last elections and Lab/Lib coalition would win. I thought Brexit was an impossibility. I thought all of these things because the media I consumed and the people I listened to in my friend group also all thought those things and when I saw contradictory opinions to this on places like Bluemoon, I wrote them off as morons or secretly racist trolls. I lived in a bubble of ignorance and even worse than this, had no idea I lived in a bubble of ignorance.

This isn't where I want to live; the truth and reality are important to me and I've recognised my impression of the views of the nations were very out of whack with the views of the nation. Due to my federalist globalist views, it's pretty common that where I think we should be politically is not where we are but we're also in a different place for where I thought we were. Social media and the mainstream media presented me with a reality that was undeniably false.

The only way I know how to determine truth is through evidence, critical analysis and starting with a non-biased perspective wherever possible. As a member of Labour, I'd like us to win an election and continue all of the good things that Labour is known for (and maybe do less of the bad things). I don't know how to achieve that when we don't understand the country, the world, or how it is changing around us. On how we stop playing the "everybody is a bigot" card and start listening to people that we've ignored and insulted for 20 years. Trump is a lightning rod of this change and understanding what it is that he is doing, what it is that is appealing and what it is that the rest of the Government are doing in opposition to it is important information in that discovery. What happens in the States invariably makes its way across the Atlantic 5+ years later. I don't think Farage is that change and think we have our own Trump to come.

For 20 years I've preached inclusion and excluded people who hold opinions that I built into racism that was never there. Once that was eliminated post-Brexit and I started fact checking things that I'd never fact checked before, I found that the world looked a bit more like those views than it first appeared. Not totally of course, their views are still in opposition to mine, but at least the logic started to make sense if I did still disagree which is a step forward. Racists exist and support Brexit, of course they do. But lots of people who aren't racist, xenophobic, Islamophobic or nationalists also support Brexit and it would be nice if we figured out a way to cater towards them within the confines of liberal democracy.

And this all sums up my central core belief - fair and democratic elections can never be wrong. The democratic experiment that started in the US and France replaced the monarchist/imperial systems of Europe and did so a shockingly short time ago really. It was only about 100 years that most of Europe still had monarchs and had them as de jure rather than just de facto rulers. We're a less stable social system than we really give ourselves credit for - and yet democracy has saved the day on numerous occasions. In the Nuclear Age could we see the conquest driven Old World Emperors or Kings restraining themselves to ensure that type of peace like Kennedy and Khrushchev did? I don't know, it feels not.

The system is right and it works. When a program that you know to have good logic inside produces surprising results, you examine the inputs and outputs - you don't call it names and claim it's a racist powermad dictator. That's where I'm at politically and mentally. I don't understand the situation in front of me and don't think any of the answers masquerading as insults that I'm given are satisfactory. I do feel however that listening more and giving people a good faith chance to explain situations has helped rather than demonoising them at every step.
 
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