Grenfell Tower block disaster

[blueinsa]

quite true, but this is an extraordinarily large number of people in a extraordinarily large number of properties where if there is a fire, Grenfell Tower shows and extraordinarily large numbers of people are likely to die.

Therefore I would argue this is an exceptional circumstance that needs an exceptional response

iirc London Fire Brigade said they attend an average of 3 fires a day in tower blocks across the capitol so to suggest that any fire is likely to see such large numbers being so tragically killed is wrong. They where also at pains to remind everyone that their advice to stay in your flat remains as it is proven to be the safest place whilst they tend to any blaze that is normally confined to the flat it's broken out in.

Im not trying to be a smartass here or lessen the tragedy of grenfell but like a once in a lifetime hurricane or earthquake, this was a once in a lifetime blaze and yes, we have to learn from it and make people as safe as we possibly can but we cant become kneejerk and reactionary and we cant 100% make anyone safe, ever.

 

[pirate]

Thanks, but I can't be bothered getting into a discussion with you, if you don't think being told at short notice, to go spend the night, maybe several nights, on a sports hall floor, with kids or elderly or disabled is a "nightmare" then you have a very different idea of "nightmare" to me. If I lived there in those circumstances, then I'd be wanting to stay where I was, until a proper solution was available, and not some stupid over reaction.

as should be your choice, to risk a fiery death.
I dont think I would.

yes we do obviously have different view of nightmares.

 

[johnmc]

How many spare fire crews do you really think there are in these times of austerity?

I'd put wardens on duty in each block until they are made safe.

In the meantime if you want to leave then you should be given that opportunity immediately. If you don't then I don't think you should be forced.

Are you saying there aren't enough fire crews to spare 6 - one for each block. Stick one of those ready made portacabins there for a week if would even take that long. The service is stretched and I totally appreciate your point but surely for a week if it even takes that long you could station someone there rather than this uprooting. Offer overtime. Draft in those that manned the green godesses in the army. Qualified first aiders. One fireman from each county in the country.

The police are stretched but in Manchester i saw a greater presence after the arena incident than ever. Permanently stationed at various points. Would it be impossible to do similar rather than move people from their homes into leisure centres

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Sadly it would appear that they haven't really thought about that.

It appears so mate, I looked at the social housing stock available in and around the areas affected and it's pitiful.

 

[pirate]

Are you saying there aren't enough fire crews to spare 6 - one for each block. Stick one of those ready made portacabins there for a week if would even take that long. The service is stretched and I totally appreciate your point but surely for a week if it even takes that long you could station someone there rather than this uprooting. Offer overtime. Draft in those that manned the green godesses in the army. Qualified first aiders. One fireman from each county in the country.

The police are stretched but in Manchester i saw a greater presence after the arena incident than ever. Permanently stationed at various points. Would it be impossible to do similar rather than move people from their homes into leisure centres

possibly, but if you look at how quickly the fire took hold at grenfell and how much a single stationed crew could achieve, i am thinking moving people out might be the better option.
however i have to admit I am a layman and would happily follow the advice of professional firefighters and risk assesment professionals

 

[johnmc]

possibly, but if you look at how quickly the fire took hold at grenfell and how much a single stationed crew could achieve, i am thinking moving people out might be the better option.
however i have to admit I am a layman and would happily follow the advice of professional firefighters and risk assesment professionals

Apologies. I'm no expert. So forgive if I sound like I know what I'm talking about.

I thought that one of the main issues was fire services not being able to anywhere near the tower. So maybe a unit stationed on the blocks where there was a check and the access was also good. But agree the total safest option would be to get them out and that's what they have done. So ignore my ramblings.

 

[SouthStandStander]

Maybe. And I'm just throwing this out there. They have got wind of a terrorist group discussing how setting fire to one of these flawed / unsafe buildings would cause a huge loss of life.
We have seen how terror attacks have evolved from planted bombs to suicide bombers to driving vehicles at people.
Unfortunatly we are living in a world where anything is a target if a huge loss of life is the potential outcome.

I just find it strange to evacuate 800 homes on a Friday night in London. If they are just doing this due to the fire risk, then there could potentially be hundreds of tower blocks evacuated over the coming days.

 

[yeseye]

This is arse covering on a grand scale. Whoever made this decision, be it the leader of Cambden Council or the fire service chief have looked at worse case scenario and decided they dont want a potential manslaughter charge against them.
I expect other councils to follow suit.

 

[bluethrunthru]

This is arse covering on a grand scale. Whoever made this decision, be it the leader of Cambden Council or the fire service chief have looked at worse case scenario and decided they dont want a potential manslaughter charge against them.
I expect other councils to follow suit.

Yes I suspect that todays Met press briefing saying they were looking at manslaughter could have concentrated minds.

Can't help but wonder if there is any political motivation behind this now too? Past ministers handling of things - Barwell - Pickles etc being questioned and tonight May's reaction being called into question too. She is looking like someone out of her depth and unable to get a handle on what's going on. The Brexit debacle this week too means that it one of the reluctant replacements is going to have to front up and challenge her

 

[Bill Walker]

If it's anything other than political grandstanding then I'll eat our budgie. It just doesn't make sense.
If these buildings are that sensitive, have fire services posted until such time they're able to relocate people for the period required?

Then again, if I had a possible manslaughter charge hanging over my head I'd want those people out