French Tunisian and Kuwait Terrorist attacks {merged}

[KenTheLandlord]

That's a complete non-sequitur to the point made plus there is absolutely no evidence that gas was used. There were no supplies of mustard gas but limited supplies of tear gas available in the region. A bit like Saddam Hussein's mythical WMD 75 years later in fact.

Damocles said that the fall of the Ottoman empire was a factor in the rise of Islamic militancy however and he's right I suspect, as that led to the carving up of the Middle East in a fairly arbitrary way. The Iraqi tribes were revolting against the prospect that they might become part of the British Empire.

Interestingly it was one of the few times that the Iraqi Sunni and Shia groups worked together. After the revolt had been crushed they went back to killing each other.

You might also remember we bombed the fuck out of Germany 70 years ago and dropped a couple of atomic weapons on Japan as well. They've had no problem coming to terms with us since that.

That article came 80 years later when Douglas reckoned "While at various moments tear gas munitions were available in Mesopotamia, circumstances seeming to call for their use existed, and official sanction to employ them had been received, at no time during the period of the mandate did all three of these conditions apply", and that it was clear that no poison gas was used. Coming just after the same reasoning for Saddam a healthy dose of "mmm i dont believe that" is used. also worth noting those that say they weren't used are British. I would be interested to see what local scholars had to say, bearing in mind history is written by the winners.

Churchill's view in the War Office minutes of 12 May 1919

"I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected."

Interesting that it was felt not really necessary despite Britain also being responsible for the Boer concentration camps, Aden’s torture centres, the Chinese “resettlement”, the Amritsar massacre, the Cyprus internment, the partitioning of India, the Irish “potato famine”, the Kenyan concentration camps, and the Bengal famine? Not like be form is it?


The Germans and Japanese arn't the same as the peoples in Mesopotamia though are they? We did not occupy their lands and take their resources. Not really a relevant comparison.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

I'm sure that as the Tunisian gunman was pumping british tourists full of bullets as they lay on their sun loungers was thinking to himself ''take that you imperialist western dogs, that will teach bomber harris and the lads for laughing in 1920

Give it a few days, someone will have sent the point to you.

 

[GresleyChris]

Hasnt an attack been imminent since the threat level thingy was first introduced?

Governments like scared populations. Easier to pass crackpot laws.

Yeah I know you're saying, we've probably always been "amber" or "red" since 2001 but with the 600+ extra police drafted in and today's show of defence makes me wonder.

If something was imminent or the threat level was a deeper "red" than ever before, would any government let the people know? the panic caused would be immense.

Slightly going off into conspiracy theories so don't want to go off thread but just something I'd been thinking about since the attack on Friday and the government's response to it.

 

[supercity88]

Yeah I know you're saying, we've probably always been "amber" or "red" since 2001 but with the 600+ extra police drafted in and today's show of defence makes me wonder.

If something was imminent or the threat level was a deeper "red" than ever before, would any government let the people know? the panic caused would be immense.

Slightly going off into conspiracy theories so don't want to go off thread but just something I'd been thinking about since the attack on Friday and the government's response to it.

Because of the situation across the globe London has been on high alert for a while. The situation is Paris heightened things and they've planned this terror response drill for about 6 months at least now to make sure that should anything happen all of the emergency services and the army are in sync.

The country is on high alert, but there's still more chance you'll get run over or be injured in a car crash so it's best to get on with your life and not worry too much.

The Tunisian people have done brilliantly to show Islamic extremists that despite the difference in cultures we are all human beings and can co-exist. That show of faith in human kind and solidarity is the last thing terrorists want to see. It sticks a big fat middle finger up at their cause.

 

[warspite]

Give it a few days, someone will have sent the point to you.

Clever fucker ey!

 

[Damocles]

I disagree also, but for the main reason it being bollocks

So you believe that it is innate to the right wing position that fascism will rise out of it? I presume we should ban all right wingers then from expressing an opinion in this country.

So how do we fight them, if we go on a ground war we would probably crush them however as the end neared they'd just fade away and pop up again, would they not? So do we let them have a caphilate that stretches across North Africa and basically put up a shield and not allow them anywhere near us, don't trade etc? Only problem is the oil, when isn't it! So apart from special forces taking out the leaders at great risk what do we do?

You can't fight an idea with a gun, especially an idea that suggests that the confirmation of all the lies it is spinning will be when they start attacking you with a gun because of it.

Instead you use intelligence, diplomacy and clandestine funding to allow it to be destroyed from within.

I often use this phrase because it's true - many people when they are presented with a problem use the "its something" logic. It's something logic dictates that something must be done, this proposed idea is something, therefore this is what should be done. When people don't see any visible solutions moving then they presume that nothing is being done.

Unfortunately wars of intelligence and diplomacy tend to require patience on our side and let the professionals do what they do best. Things have started getting better, Al Qaeda and ISIS are at war with each and taking out each others leaders on a semi-regular basis. Rebels are fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq, the Iraqi military is involved and firefighting.

What doesn't need to happen is to someone to scream AMURICA! FUCK YEAH! fly in on a bunch of jets and bomb the shit out of everything. What will happen then is that we would have taken a pretty contained situation do the former Levant region with the odd lone gunman who shares their beliefs elsewhere and would militarise an entire generation.

 

[Damocles]

I'm sure that as the Tunisian gunman was pumping british tourists full of bullets as they lay on their sun loungers was thinking to himself ''take that you imperialist western dogs, that will teach bomber harris and the lads for laughing in 1920

I don't think the German soliders in the Second World war were sat there thinking "take that you imperialist dogs, this is for the Treaty of Versallies" but that doesn't make it any less of a cause in the Second World War

 

[DelToro]

Big training exercise today in London preparing for a "Tunisian style" attack. Does anyone else feel an attack on these shores is imminent?

Maybe just coincidence that it'll be 10 years since 7/7 but something doesn't feel right about an exercise in that scale, does our security service know something we don't??

These things are pretty regular.

Most regions conduct major exercises with police forces, Fire and emergency, army, intelligence etc every 2-3 years.

 

[urmston]

Big training exercise today in London preparing for a "Tunisian style" attack. Does anyone else feel an attack on these shores is imminent?

Maybe just coincidence that it'll be 10 years since 7/7 but something doesn't feel right about an exercise in that scale, does our security service know something we don't??

Probably not.

They are just showing us they are they are ready.

It is an improvement on the aftermath of 7/7 when they panicked and rushed onto a tube train to shoot an innocent, foreign looking man dead.

 

[bluemoon98]

Condolences to Marc Albrighton and his partners family after his partner's mum and boyfriend were killed in the Tunisian attack