Gender Choices

[Thaksinssoldier]

The whole thing is a mess.

If you take the side of pro trans folk, you have to accept their belief that the large amount of suicides in their community are down to the issues of feeling bullied by the masses(to put it in it's simplest form).

However, others argue that these people think that switching gender will suddenly lead to happiness, but then post op realize this wasn't the case and they end up harming themselves.

Personally I see it as a minor form of mental illness and is a quirk picked up somewhere in the developmental years rather than something people are born with as is the modern fashionable opinion, but I'm also saying that from a complete platform of ignorance.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I'd just like to profess third party offence and outrage on behalf of the trans toddler community at some of the common sense posts in this thread. As parents we teach our kids socially appropriate conventional behavior as a means of repressing their spirits. Surely we should let kids to whatever they feel like and indulge every whim they have?

Quite right. I remember a particularly witty aunt of mine telling us 7 year old kids to go and play with some razor blades,
proper inclusive and right-on was aunty Dot, far ahead of her time.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Separate toys for boys and girls is a fairly recent phenomenon in the main. Toy makers realised that they can sell more toys if boys can't pass their toys down to their sisters and vice versa.

 

[Hoghead]

but I'm also saying that from a complete platform of ignorance.

Yup, you are.
There is a whole load of psychological assessments carried out by the gender identity development service (known as the Tavistock Centre) before any physical procedures are carried out. Anybody under the age of 18 would have to go through the courts for any surgical stuff.
But I will admit it is becoming a phenomenon perhaps due to it previously being repressed by society and those not conforming ending up in certain establishments, of which there were many, for all sorts of transgressions (teenage / outside of marriage pregnancy for one).

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

Yup, you are.
There is a whole load of psychological assessments carried out by the gender identity development service (known as the Tavistock Centre) before any physical procedures are carried out. Anybody under the age of 18 would have to go through the courts for any surgical stuff.
But I will admit it is becoming a phenomenon perhaps due to it previously being repressed by society and those not conforming ending up in certain establishments, of which there were many, for all sorts of transgressions (teenage / outside of marriage pregnancy for one).

But despite expertise, these things have a tendency to swing to the other side of the pendulum again and again over time. And despite the tests you mention, they are still committing suicides in huge numbers, or self harming or being drug addicts.

Let me tangent this a little and ask this for clarification. My brother in law recently decided he's gay. I say decided because he certainly wasn't up to a point, but decided a couple of years back he was after going to a pride rally and basically feeling like he belonged to something(he was a bit of an outsider as his dad was a bullying piece of shit). He now goes out with his "boyfriend"- and I use this word lightly as his boyfriend has a vagina and identifies as a male. So is he actually gay? If he has, actually become gay, he certainly was not born that way, more a case that a life circumstance drove his thought processes that way to identify with this as a way to be happy. Fair enough, but it's not genetic as some would try claim.

So to focus back on the original point, letting kids wear princess dresses for me is a form of child abuse and using your kid as a social status symbol so to speak. There's a boy like this lives a bit away from us, always out in frocks. I wouldn't have the time of day for his parents and wouldnt allow my own child of a similar age to interact with someone like that who is being damaged by their parents.

 

[che_don_john]

The idea that children have any real idea on their sexuality at that age is sort of revolting. …Children are stupid as shit. They eat glue, can't tie shoelaces and aren't reliable in a scrap… Making decisions about their future gender identity and sexuality is a hundred billion miles outside of their scope of life. …We don't allow children to make many of their own decisions specifically because they have neither the experience or biological brain power to comprehend them.

In way you've kind of countered your own argument. If children are too young (i.e. lacking in experience and intelligence) to make an informed choice, and yet you acknowledge that they nevertheless 'feel' they have a different gender, then doesn't this therefore suggest that gender identity is an innate/instinctive thing rather than a learned thing? And if it is innate then it can't be helped, leaving the parents with the choice: they either go against it at great distress to the child, or they go with it.

It's a very tough choice, one that few of us hear can ever imagine trying to make, and so I think labelling it as a form of child abuse is unfair. All they are trying to do is the best for their child under very difficult circumstances.

I watch a lot of YouTube videos of nutters who go on about non-binary gender and some actually believe there is more than 2 genders! It's like science doesn't even mean shit anymore....

I think you're confusing gender, which is 'state' or 'concept' (and thus a sociological/psychological/philosophical creation), with sex, which is biological. I do agree, though, that some people are getting a bit carried away with their accounting of the many 'genders'. Nat Geo had a great feature on it a few months ago where they listed them all, and about half of them seemed to me to be pretty much the same, bar a few very minor differences.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Everyone is a special snowflake. Once LGBT became an accepted term the attention seekers stuck a Q+ on the end.

 

[BimboBob]

Everyone is a special snowflake. Once LGBT became an accepted term the attention seekers stuck a Q+ on the end.

Special snowflake sounds like fun!

 

[Tuearts right boot]

It's a simple case of too much information to too many people who are too easily influenced.

 

[geoff clipp]

But despite expertise, these things have a tendency to swing to the other side of the pendulum again and again over time. And despite the tests you mention, they are still committing suicides in huge numbers, or self harming or being drug addicts.

Let me tangent this a little and ask this for clarification. My brother in law recently decided he's gay. I say decided because he certainly wasn't up to a point, but decided a couple of years back he was after going to a pride rally and basically feeling like he belonged to something(he was a bit of an outsider as his dad was a bullying piece of shit). He now goes out with his "boyfriend"- and I use this word lightly as his boyfriend has a vagina and identifies as a male. So is he actually gay? If he has, actually become gay, he certainly was not born that way, more a case that a life circumstance drove his thought processes that way to identify with this as a way to be happy. Fair enough, but it's not genetic as some would try claim.

So to focus back on the original point, letting kids wear princess dresses for me is a form of child abuse and using your kid as a social status symbol so to speak. There's a boy like this lives a bit away from us, always out in frocks. I wouldn't have the time of day for his parents and wouldnt allow my own child of a similar age to interact with someone like that who is being damaged by their parents.

sounds like the only person causing the issue and behaving negatively in this instance is you tbh, especially the bit where you're saying you wouldn't allow your own child to interact with them . That only serves to pass down your own prejudices to another generation.

Also think it's interesting that the objectors probably wouldn't have any problem if it were a girl dressing up as a cowboy or whatever. There's nothing to say that the kid mentioned in the OP is saying he wants to be a girl anyway, maybe he wears different things on different days. For me, so long as the kid is making friends, doing ok in school and learning to be a decent human being, he should be allowed to be whoever he wants if it's not hurting anyone else. Forcing him to be anything otherwise is closer to child abuse than letting him wear a dress. Loads of people seem to think that letting the boy wear the dress means you've forced him down a road and there's no coming back. If he's left to get on with wearing whatever he wants without a fuss then i'm sure he'll settle on whatever he likes eventually.