General Election June 8th

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Ric, 18 Apr 2017.

  1. pirate

    pirate

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2010
    So you mean a lot, Ok whats a lot? do you mean 10% or 40% or something else.

    I think that those that play the system are a very small minority, less than 5% if I have to put a figure on it.
    I do think that the vast majority would work if the jobs were available. The evidence for this is easy to come by. The vast majority of those claiming welfare are people with jobs 4.8 million people claiming tax credits in 2015-16 (last year figures were available) because they are low paid and 5.0 million people claiming other benefits because of low pay (they are probably the same people). That alone counts for nearly 26% of the welfare budget. Whereas unemployment benefits were claimed by 705,000 and accounted for 1.1% of the welfare budget.
    Just for clarity the majority of the rest goes to the disabled (19%), pensions (46%) and family benefits not based on income (6%) and the total welfare budget is 211 billion

    Yes I think the movement of the global economy and how the impact of that has been managed by successive governments of three parties have taken away the jobs and more importantly secure jobs.
    I think the experience of those claiming welfare benefits (about 6 million people) and how they are portrayed by especially Tory politicians leads them to believe they have a very limited future.
     
  2. law74

    law74

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2007
    Occupation:
    uncivil servent
    Location:
    backing three legged donkeys
    Workfare, my next door neighbours daughter could only get a 4 hour a week contract in a retail shop about a year ago, so was still claiming job seekersey allowance, because she was on JSA she was sent on "workfare" and placed in the shop she had her 4 hours per week contract.
    Add the hours she was working between her contracted (paid) hours and her workfare (unpaid) hours & dividing it into her total weekly income and she was getting about £2.20 per hour.
    Can you justify this?

    Though the 100 people getting the £35,000 per annum will be spending most of that in the local economy, paying VAT on their purchases, keeping shops and suppliers open and employing staff and keeping the chain moving, whereas the CEO would be more likely to have it hidden in an offshore account, or buying a bigger villa abroad, with little if any further gain to the regional economy (& that's before getting into the discussion of is it better to help one person massively or many people moderately).
     
  3. SWP's back

    SWP's back

    Joined:
    29 Jun 2009
    Location:
    by the pool
    Not likely to save him much tax that plus the offshore savings account rates are shite. I'm barely getting 0.4%.

    If he'd had that in a UK account getting 1% and then paying tax on the income he'd have been better off.

    As for the "helping one person or many", capitalism isn't about helping anyone with a free ride. There's a reason conference players get £200 a week and Yaya earns that in an hour.

    Regarding where the money is spent. That's a macroeconomic argument and has some merit but when the economy is stable and growing then it's of less use. We were being fairly specific regarding taxes on income.
     
  4. Gelsons Dad

    Gelsons Dad

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zurich Switzerland.
    How many lower paid workers send their expendable income overseas back home to their family?
     
  5. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

    Joined:
    26 Jul 2009
    And what is the reason the market is ridiculous, ie; jobs galore? Why has the pound risen on the day an election
    was called, is it the prospect of a Labour landslide? Why have millions of welfare claimants now started work, could it
    be that the measures taken have made them do so? Why do the polls suggest a massive Tory win, seeing as everyone knows that
    the Conservatives are horrible uncaring twats, and by association, so are everyone who votes for them?
    It's a puzzle, for sure.
     
  6. SWP's back

    SWP's back

    Joined:
    29 Jun 2009
    Location:
    by the pool
    C***s. They are labelled c***s in off topic if you please.
     
  7. pirate

    pirate

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2010
    everyone does keep half their income and not one of the big three parties has plans to change that so doesnt seem a significant reason for choosing Tory. You have to go back 40 years for one of parties to have proposed or implimented a tax rate that took more than half anyones pay. However if you lived through that I can see it would have stayed with you.

    The rest of your points I can see, except that the rhetoric and actions of the Tory party in power over my lifetime indicates that the underlying ethos of the Tories is selfishness. Therefore I find it hard to empathise with people who want to achieve those (in most cases) very reasonable aims by voting Tory and therefore their selfishness, without coming to the conclusion that they are also to some degree selfish.

    as for your last point we as a nation are spending more on health and education, but not when you factor in the inflation i healthcare (higher than general inflation) and the number of people who need healthcare and education. You may argue that we as a nation cant afford it because we shouldnt be taxed more to fund it. I would say thats selfish and we really should.
     
  8. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

    Joined:
    26 Jul 2009
    Sorry SWP, I forgot protocol dictates this, I hang my head in shame and pledge to use the apt descriptive 'C***s' in future.
     
  9. pirate

    pirate

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2010
    I already have fella
    I will leave the C bomb in my head
    but not the selfish.

    personally I would find being called a c word less offensive than being called selfish
     
  10. pirate

    pirate

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2010
    I dont know how to reply to that without typing a hundred pages of text.
    However I will say that Labour has to take some of the blame for the current mess, although your analysis is so far off the mark.
     

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