George Evans

[blueparrot]

The professionals normally decide, after the kid gets chance to show what he can do having played some first team football.

At City, it is happening without the best kids even getting a sniff. That's not how this stuff usually works in football, not when kids have talent it isn't, & ours do.

In your opinion they do, in the opinion of the club and DOF they don't, thats how it works the fans view is irrelevant. I wouldn't be too surprised if it had even been run past Guardiola if things are as nailed on as some think it is. If Pellegrini is going I doubt he would even be consulted on whether Evans should be let go or offered a new contract.
Why would the club let kids go if they thought they had the talent to get into the first team squad , or at least be worth a decent fee to another top club ?

 

[twosips]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ent-says-West-Ham-legend-Trevor-Brooking.html

Trevor Brooking isn't happy.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Glad we can agree. To be honest you could have just left your post there but, for the hell of it, I'll humour you.



First - the club employs people for the sole purpose of judging talent. It's their job. We also employ coaches that develop these kids and work with them every day. For a kid to be moved on, the consensus among those people is that it's right for the club and player for him to do so. However, it wouldn't be the first time clubs have made incorrect judgements on players that have gone on to have successful top flight careers, but at the very top flight, it's rare. So, I'll agree they don't know for sure. However, they are employed to make a judgement and their judgement is trusted.

Second - I don't think they believe they have extra powers, and I personally don't believe I have extra powers. That's a strange accusation. I just choose to put faith in those developing these players to make the right decision, which they are trained and employed to do, rather than listen to some over dramatic tool on the Internet.



Agree, he has proven his competence at the level he has been playing at. In fairness to him, he hasn't been given a run of games for the first team of the current Premier League favorites to prove his competence at that particular level. The argument for that is subjective, and separate to this.



Your opinion. Which, given your own words that he hasn't had chance to prove himself in the first team, is difficult to assess what you've based that opinion on.



He is out of contract in the summer.



For Walsall.



His reward, for all his years of work and for all of City's investment in him, is a transfer to a decent Championship side at the age of 21. My heart fucking bleeds for him. He has the foundations of a successful career in football due to his and City's hard work in his development.

Allowing him to leave now, rather than at the end of his contract, also allows us to factor in future clauses depending on his success.



Glad we agree.



If you're deemed not up to that level then this is the unfortunate reality players will face.



Can you give some examples of players that have come to city, used our facilities and then fucked off to Spurs (or any other top flight team) at 16 and gone on to have a successful top flight domestic and international career? Nearest I can think of and again I reference Trippier - who did very well at Burnley and got a transfer to Spurs and has made one premier league appearance. Sturridge is probably the best we've produced and he left off his own accord. Devante Cole had a lot to say about youth players getting a chance in the first team. He's currently at Bradford and has 6 goals in 24 appearances this season.

How the fuck can I do that, when I'm talking about what the result of this may be in the future, if it continues ?

Seriously, how the FUCK can I do that ?

I mentioned on another thread how some people like to see failure to make the grade in football, as proof of a lack of talent, as you are doing with Cole. And yet Glen Whelan plays in the Premier League. A kid who when he was 18 at City, would struggle to play in our U16s now.

People like you, just put everything into convenient little boxes & the failure to bring through talented kids is worn like a badge of honour to prove how right you were. If 'x' doesn't make it at 'y' it's because he's shit, nothing to worry about, couldn't be helped, lets al go down the pub.

For a start, if City are signing mainly shit kids with no chance of making it after spending 8 years being coached at our academy, there is something SERIOUSLY fucking wrong.

These kids have talent. Most won't become elite players. Some should at least become squad players. None are. That is not something to crow about, it's a complete failure.

The accepted level of failure for producing top level academy graduates at City, has become far to high over the last 20 years or so & the rate of failure for producing squad players is pathetic.

We have redesigned the academy to try & fix it. People such as youself are far too comfortable with it, even arguing the case for it to be perpetuated .

I want improvement & so do the club. The first step is a new manager. Then at least one or two might get a chance to at least have a go at making it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

In your opinion they do, in the opinion of the club and DOF they don't, thats how it works the fans view is irrelevant. I wouldn't be too surprised if it had even been run past Guardiola if things are as nailed on as some think it is. If Pellegrini is going I doubt he would even be consulted on whether Evans should be let go or offered a new contract.
Why would the club let kids go if they thought they had the talent to get into the first team squad , or at least be worth a decent fee to another top club ?

Pellegrini imo has no interest in bringing through kids, whatsoever. It could be that Pep sanctioned Evans' sale. Why wouldn't he ? He has no time to judge him in the first team at 21, that should have happened over the last 3-4 years whilst he's been mainly absent from the club.

It's not my opinion on how clubs usually judge players btw, it's how it's normally done in football. The best kids normally get a shot at the first team, then the decision is made on the strength of that. Everyone from Ferguson to Joey barton would tell you that. It's not something I'm inventing.

What some are saying on here is that basically none of the kids from our academy has been good enough to even merit a bit of consideration as a first team squad player. It is unthinkable & dangerous to even try & in any case, all our coaches agree that none of them are good enough to even get off the subs bench for the first team. Mainly just the signings, Kelechi, Roberts & Garcia, are worth a look, the rest, our coaches 'know' aren't worth bothering with.

If that were true, what does it say about our academy for the past 5 years ?

It isn't true btw & I don't believe our coaches think that none of these kids are good enough.

 

[markbmcfc]

How the fuck can I do that, when I'm talking about what the result of this may be in the future, if it continues ?

Seriously, how the FUCK can I do that ?

I mentioned on another thread how some people like to see failure to make the grade in football, as proof of a lack of talent, as you are doing with Cole. And yet Glen Whelan plays in the Premier League. A kid who when he was 18 at City, would struggle to play in our U16s now.

People like you, just put everything into convenient little boxes & the failure to bring through talented kids is worn like a badge of honour to prove how right you were. If 'x' doesn't make it at 'y' it's because he's shit, nothing to worry about, couldn't be helped, lets al go down the pub.

For a start, if City are signing mainly shit kids with no chance of making it after spending 8 years being coached at our academy, there is something SERIOUSLY fucking wrong.

These kids have talent. Most won't become elite players. Some should at least become squad players. None are. That is not something to crow about, it's a complete failure.

The accepted level of failure for producing top level academy graduates at City, has become far to high over the last 20 years or so & the rate of failure for producing squad players is pathetic.

We have redesigned the academy to try & fix it. People such as youself are far too comfotable with it, even arguing the case for it to be perpetuated .

I want improvement & so do the club. The first step is a new manager. Then at least one or two might get a chance to at least have a go at making it.

Right hang on a minute. You're associating the situation with George Evans with the performance of the academy and over generalising that people are happy with it.

This is a thread about George and his move and my responses to you thus far have been based purely on that.

You don't know me, so don't speak for me. I want kids from city to join the club at 7 and go on to win the Ballon d'Or in a City shirt, just as much as the next City fan and I take no happiness whatsoever in players moving on that have failed to make the grade. I was as disappointed as everyone else that George was moving on, I still am. The difference between you and I, is you think City are to blame, I say we've done our job and he's come up short of first team standard for the level our first team is at.

It is rather idiotic to think City fans take pleasure in kids not making it as first team players. If those people do exist, then they are not City fans.

In fact your entire post has no bearing on the issue at hand that is George Evans. Post it in one of the several discussions on the performance of the academy.

 

[BigOscar]

If you are really going to break through at a big team then you either have to be seriously special, or be versatile and able to "do a job", like someone like John O'Shea. Otherwise you are probably going to have to leave the club and work your way up, like Trippier and Whelan did and Emyr Huws and now George Evans are trying to do. I don't see Evans as an incredibly special player and I'm not convinced he really has the mobility or defensive awareness yet to really "do a job" in midfield, like Fabian Delph does for us, so it's not that surprising he's been allowed to go imo.

I think it's a great move for him and will allow him to really learn his trade and maybe nail down a position and work on it. Maybe in a few years he will be at a level where he can do a job for us, but I think he's far more likely to get to that level by moving away and playing every week than he would by staying here and maybe getting a handful of games a year.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

How the fuck can I do that, when I'm talking about what the result of this may be in the future, if it continues ?

Seriously, how the FUCK can I do that ?

I mentioned on another thread how some people like to see failure to make the grade in football, as proof of a lack of talent, as you are doing with Cole. And yet Glen Whelan plays in the Premier League. A kid who when he was 18 at City, would struggle to play in our U16s now.

People like you, just put everything into convenient little boxes & the failure to bring through talented kids is worn like a badge of honour to prove how right you were. If 'x' doesn't make it at 'y' it's because he's shit, nothing to worry about, couldn't be helped, lets al go down the pub.

For a start, if City are signing mainly shit kids with no chance of making it after spending 8 years being coached at our academy, there is something SERIOUSLY fucking wrong.

These kids have talent. Most won't become elite players. Some should at least become squad players. None are. That is not something to crow about, it's a complete failure.

The accepted level of failure for producing top level academy graduates at City, has become far to high over the last 20 years or so & the rate of failure for producing squad players is pathetic.

We have redesigned the academy to try & fix it. People such as youself are far too comfortable with it, even arguing the case for it to be perpetuated .

I want improvement & so do the club. The first step is a new manager. Then at least one or two might get a chance to at least have a go at making it.

Knev – I have some sympathy with your views but you are starting to sound like a stuck record. It is true that we have brought through very few players into the squad for any consistent period but you need to accept some context on the first team squad.

We hit the money in 2008 and the first wave of signings across 2008 / 9 /10 were very much transitional – we had to settle for what we could get and that meant the likes of Adebayour and Robinho etc, some good players but not all round good characters. We got these rough items alongside the smooth (Komps, Zaba, Silva etc). Since then we have been refining the squad that was carrying some bad apples and dead wood, bringing in better players then moving others out. As a result we have had a big squad for a number of years with 2 senior players for each position and some extras. We have had players we have invested in and given them a few years but ultimately looked to move them on (i.e. Rodwell, Jovetic, Nastcic etc), many out on loan with other clubs pending moves away. All this activity has been ongoing while we have been establishing ourselves as serial top 4 finishers and title contenders and under the threat of FFP. A period of change unprecedented in living memory for city fans. It has left little room for youth players although a handful each year have got on the pitch.

I agree that I would have liked to have seen more youth players so far this season, sub opportunities are often missed and it does wind me up but look at the bigger picture. We have not had a Pogba situation although we have sold youth players for decent money. It is easy to forget where we have come from and what we had to do to get where we are.

 

[supercity88]

Right hang on a minute. You're associating the situation with George Evans with the performance of the academy and over generalising that people are happy with it.

This is a thread about George and his move and my responses to you thus far have been based purely on that.

You don't know me, so don't speak for me. I want kids from city to join the club at 7 and go on to win the Ballon d'Or in a City shirt, just as much as the next City fan and I take no happiness whatsoever in players moving on that have failed to make the grade. I was as disappointed as everyone else that George was moving on, I still am. The difference between you and I, is you think City are to blame, I say we've done our job and he's come up short of first team standard for the level our first team is at.

It is rather idiotic to think City fans take pleasure in kids not making it as first team players. If those people do exist, then they are not City fans.

In fact your entire post has no bearing on the issue at hand that is George Evans. Post it in one of the several discussions on the performance of the academy.

I struggle to understand how you think City have done their job regarding Evans... what exactly have they done? Have they tried and tested him in a City shirt?
As much as football development relies on science, whether a player makes it or not doesn't have an exact recipe.
A player like Kane was heading down the leagues based on his loan spells and now look at him.
On the other hand the likes of Rooney came into a side from an early age and continued to impress.
Others like Walcott have come in early and failed to kick on, Grealish is an example of a young lad who's showing inconsistencies because of his age but is at least getting opportunities to prove himself.

I personally don't know if Evans will make it or not at a high level. My concern is about other kids and what decisions like this mean for them. Currently the club are showing no ambition to test young kids at first team level. We're willing to accept poor performances from costly players like Mangala, Fernando, Delph, Sterling or whoever it may be. But yet we're so dramatic about testing a young player. One game might ruin them forever. One ten minute spell might cost City a game. On the other hand one ten minute spell could win us a game because we don't know how a player will react when he's thrown into the first team setup. Nacho has thrived from the bench but had a so-so performance on the weekend.

What I'm trying to say is that no one truly knows whether a player will make it because a lot of success at the highest level is mental. Many players can't handle the mental side so struggle for consistency. Others thrive in big games because they love the biggest stage. My fear is that City aren't recognising how important it is to give young players a chance to impress in a City shirt before they decide whether they'll make it. There are players that impress throughout the age groups at academy level and international level but that don't particularly set the world alight when they reach the senior age groups. There are also those that don't impress at a young age particularly but manage to impress when they make the first team.

We're all hoping Pep's arrival may signal the introduction of young players and hopefully we see that. I can't see Pep being particularly bothered about the league cup for instance even if it is a major trophy. He'll be aiming for success in the bigger competitions and may use the league cup to test younger players. I truly believe in throwing youngsters in at the deep end and letting them learn alongside our best players.

 

[blueparrot]

Knev – I have some sympathy with your views but you are starting to sound like a stuck record. It is true that we have brought through very few players into the squad for any consistent period but you need to accept some context on the first team squad.

We hit the money in 2008 and the first wave of signings across 2008 / 9 /10 were very much transitional – we had to settle for what we could get and that meant the likes of Adebayour and Robinho etc, some good players but not all round good characters. We got these rough items alongside the smooth (Komps, Zaba, Silva etc). Since then we have been refining the squad that was carrying some bad apples and dead wood, bringing in better players then moving others out. As a result we have had a big squad for a number of years with 2 senior players for each position and some extras. We have had players we have invested in and given them a few years but ultimately looked to move them on (i.e. Rodwell, Jovetic, Nastcic etc), many out on loan with other clubs pending moves away. All this activity has been ongoing while we have been establishing ourselves as serial top 4 finishers and title contenders and under the threat of FFP. A period of change unprecedented in living memory for city fans. It has left little room for youth players although a handful each year have got on the pitch.

I agree that I would have liked to have seen more youth players so far this season, sub opportunities are often missed and it does wind me up but look at the bigger picture. We have not had a Pogba situation although we have sold youth players for decent money. It is easy to forget where we have come from and what we had to do to get where we are.

the other thing to remember an academy product that was at the club in 2008 as a 13 year old would now be a 21 year old EDS player. They joined the club at a different time and 13 year olds that joined in the last 4 years will be of a different standard, the first of those will be with our U18 top of their league and it will be these that the academy should be judged on over the next 2 or 3 years. I honestly dont believe we would have seen more players breaking into the team over the last 3 years with a different manager.

 

[SlimShadyRus]

What if he wanted to leave?

I try to not to think about this -_-
As somebody said yesterday, "let's wait for an interview(s)". We can learn some more information from them, but I'm still gutted with this move.