Government rejects Alan Turing appeal

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by speccybob, 8 Feb 2012.

  1. Mad Eyed Screamer

    Mad Eyed Screamer

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    Glad you mentioned Oscar Wilde (as I did a few pages ago but no one grabbed the bait!) - his case brings up different issues because of the ages of some of the ''boys'' he was publicly hanging around with - of course today those ''boys'' wouldn't be considered minors, but at the time Wilde would have been aware of the law around minors (and there may have been payments involved with some of them - correct me if I'm wrong - to which was also a crime)
    Of course there are many, many others in the same circumstances as Turing as you say, so I can understand the government not wanting to open up a can of worms and leaving themselves open to any forms of counter claims against them. I think some kind of official ''gesture'' towards one high profile case would speak volumes for families / relatives of those treated similarly decades ago. But I appreciate the sensitivity around such cases.
     
  2. Gelsons Dad

    Gelsons Dad

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    To us today it seems absurd that the law was as it was. However you have to examine it in it's time. The same act of parliament that oppressed and convicted not just Turning but many others was borne of the same moral conscience that did all this:

    It raised the age of consent from 13 to 16 years of age;
    It made it a criminal offence to procure girls for prostitution by administering drugs, intimidation or fraud;
    It punished householders who would permit under-age sex on their premises;
    It made it a criminal offence to abduct a girl under 18 for purposes of carnal knowledge;
    It gave magistrates the power to issue search warrants to find missing females;
    It gave power to the court to remove a girl from her legal guardians if they condoned her seduction;
    It provided for summary proceedings to be taken against brothels; and
    It raised the age of felonious assaults to 13 and misdemeanor assault between 13 and 16 as well as imbecile women and girls.

    That it also extended the buggery laws to criminalise any penetration is simply a reflection of the times.

    Without those laws we wouldn't be where we are now.
     
  3. Skashion

    Skashion

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    No I haven't. Take a deep breath and pay attention. The principle of all law should be as much liberty as is compatible with equal liberty for another. That's for the past, present and all time. It is an immutable principle which allows individuals to do what they want as long as they do not harm another individual's liberty to do the same.

    No, it doesn't. Right now, for example, there are still legal restraints against the individual in all kinds of forms. We've got equal rights for women, almost for homosexuals but drug takers, dealers and prostitutes, no. That's why this principle stands and to which democracy is subordinate. Violence of majority faction does not trump the individual. We should not be able to vote to kill all gingers for instance.

    None of this of course has any effect on the state's use of violence as a threat. However, I'd rather be a victim of the violence than adhere to law with which I disagree,
     
  4. Mad Eyed Screamer

    Mad Eyed Screamer

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    But those laws were rightly introduced - and many still exist - to protect children / developing young adults.
    Turing was an adult engaging in a consensual relationship with another adult.
     
  5. Skashion

    Skashion

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    NF, I was calling for non-compliance with the law actually. If homosexuality was still illegal and I was gay I'd be bumming for England.
     
  6. Gelsons Dad

    Gelsons Dad

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    Why are those laws right? Should they be applied the world over?
     
  7. SWP's back

    SWP's back

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    Point missed somewhat mate<br /><br />-- Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:48 pm --<br /><br />Hence people now being pardoned for "cowardice" from the wars (which is enow seen as PTSD)
     
  8. Mad Eyed Screamer

    Mad Eyed Screamer

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    You know why they are right! The name 'Gary Glitter' says they are right to have those laws in place.
    And I can see where you are leading me down the world of different cultures path which is a fair point too.
     
  9. I think the only can of worms this will open up is the use of "Alternative therapies" . The medical profession is still not prepared to admit that the chemical castration ,lobotomies , use of electrodes , ect... ect.. that we were taught were experiments by the Nazi`s on Jews ,Immigrants, Mentally impaired , and Gay people . Actually went on in this country after the war , why ? because they thought the Nazi`s were on to something . And Gayness could be exorcised from the human body .

    This is not about changing the law , this is about pardoning A person whether justly or not was convicted of a perceived crime of the 50`s . Remember he was given the choice of prison which he was too scared to do ,so the alternative was chemical castration which causes mood swings ,depression, and suicidal thoughts . The judge didnt have this information at the time , so he isnt to blame . Nobody is asking to find anyone accountable for anything more than to take a good look at his case and reverse the findings, that is all . A moral , and not an immoral thing to do in a modern age . If the Government felt so strongly that they were right they should strip him of his OBE .
    I think he will get a pardon just not this year of the anniversary of the Queens inaugeration 1952 . Colonial times when they shot people in the streets for protesting over being hungry , just makes you proud .
     

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