Javi Garcia

[Damocles]

I'm saying that we can only use stats that prove what they actually prove.

If somebody is saying "Garcia gives the ball away all the time", we can use a pass completion stat to disprove this.

If somebody is saying "Garcia only passes backwards", we can use a pass direction percentage stat to disprove this.

If somebody says "Garcia is wank", it's not something that can be defended or attacked using statistics because it isn't specific. Just because Garcia has a high pass completion doesn't mean that he is wank or world class, it just means he has a high pass completion.

That was my point in pulling out the stats originally, they are useful to give context in certain points of argument but too many people use them badly.

Just for the record, I compared his contribution to Yaya's because it's who he replaced in the team today and he is one of our three central midfielders that we play. I was trying to say "his defensive contribution is above that of Yaya yet we trust Yaya defensively but not Garcia", it was just making a point about how we look at each

 

[NQCitizen]

I'm saying that we can only use stats that prove what they actually prove.

If somebody is saying "Garcia gives the ball away all the time", we can use a pass completion stat to disprove this.

If somebody is saying "Garcia only passes backwards", we can use a pass direction percentage stat to disprove this.

If somebody says "Garcia is wank", it's not something that can be defended or attacked using statistics because it isn't specific. Just because Garcia has a high pass completion doesn't mean that he is wank or world class, it just means he has a high pass completion.

That was my point in pulling out the stats originally, they are useful to give context in certain points of argument but too many people use them badly.

Just for the record, I compared his contribution to Yaya's because it's who he replaced in the team today and he is one of our three central midfielders that we play. I was trying to say "his defensive contribution is above that of Yaya yet we trust Yaya defensively but not Garcia", it was just making a point about how we look at each

Where stats have an increased importance in this thread is that the standard criticisms of Garcia that he loses the ball loads and gets 'waltzed' past incredibly regularly can be usually disproved pretty easily with a few statistics.

 

[fathellensbellend]

I'm saying that we can only use stats that prove what they actually prove.

If somebody is saying "Garcia gives the ball away all the time", we can use a pass completion stat to disprove this.

If somebody is saying "Garcia only passes backwards", we can use a pass direction percentage stat to disprove this.

If somebody says "Garcia is wank", it's not something that can be defended or attacked using statistics because it isn't specific. Just because Garcia has a high pass completion doesn't mean that he is wank or world class, it just means he has a high pass completion.

That was my point in pulling out the stats originally, they are useful to give context in certain points of argument but too many people use them badly.

Just for the record, I compared his contribution to Yaya's because it's who he replaced in the team today and he is one of our three central midfielders that we play. I was trying to say "his defensive contribution is above that of Yaya yet we trust Yaya defensively but not Garcia", it was just making a point about how we look at each

does it mention in these stats how long it takes for him to make a pass?

I personally think Garcia is not suited to the premier league and City in particular, does it make him a bad player of course not, just not suited to us. Would Tom Huddlestone get in the Barcelona side, of course not, would he have a 100% pass rate, probably yes, would it make Huddlestone a bad player, of course not, just not good enough for Barcelona.

 

[FredTilson]

I personally think Garcia is not suited to the premier league and City in particular, does it make him a bad player of course not, just not suited to us. Would Tom Huddlestone get in the Barcelona side, of course not, would he have a 100% pass rate, probably yes, would it make Huddlestone a bad player, of course not, just not good enough for Barcelona.

The problem is Barcelona would never bid for Huddlestone because of that. Yet someone at the club apparently rated Garcia worth 16 million quid.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

 

[Rammy Blue]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

Take cover mate - NQ, Rascal and Berkovic Blue will be along shortly....

 

[Brendan110_0]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

I see Garcia has become the new Edgehill with regard to perceived performance. IMO he retains the ball very well against some of the best teams in world football, hardly ever miss-places passes which cause havoc, and this is needed when you play the best. Yaya is no defensive midfielder and the Swansea/Bayern (h)/Fulham game are all examples where Yaya get's "waltzed" past. If Pellegrini didn't like him then he'd be nowhere near the first team squad, I'll go with the managers view.

 

[Damocles]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

This is the funny thing about his stats; in my opinion they show a person who doesn't get particularly involved in the primary aspects of the game. A "second ball" player. His tackling and other defensive stats are good but even when you allow for minutes played, his biggest contribution is clearances and other longer balls. He's a player that doesn't really get to involved in the game but when he does it's too recycle possession.

I go back to my original statement in this thread. I don't understand him as a player so don't know how to rate him. I'm not sure whether he is doing his job in picking up the second ball and finding a City man or he isn't doing his job enough by not getting involved. I don't flap when I see him in the team however if he is in midfield. He's solid enough for a third or potentially fourth choice centre mid who we can use to pack the midfield and play keep ball when needed

 

[mannycity]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

I see Garcia has become the new Edgehill with regard to perceived performance. IMO he retains the ball very well against some of the best teams in world football, hardly ever miss-places passes which cause havoc, and this is needed when you play the best. Yaya is no defensive midfielder and the Swansea/Bayern (h)/Fulham game are all examples where Yaya get's "waltzed" past. If Pellegrini didn't like him then he'd be nowhere near the first team squad, I'll go with the managers view.

<br /><br />-- Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:22 pm --<br /><br />

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

I see Garcia has become the new Edgehill with regard to perceived performance. IMO he retains the ball very well against some of the best teams in world football, hardly ever miss-places passes which cause havoc, and this is needed when you play the best. Yaya is no defensive midfielder and the Swansea/Bayern (h)/Fulham game are all examples where Yaya get's "waltzed" past. If Pellegrini didn't like him then he'd be nowhere near the first team squad, I'll go with the managers view.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

This league has simply exposed his limitations.

It's actually starting to make me angry now. We've had plenty to choose from, but I would put him right up there as one of the poorest performers in a City shirt in my 30-plus years of watching.

He is completely ineffectual, occupying a space that is neither use nor ornament.

He is three yards away from his nearest man the majority of times, doesn't have the energy or pace to press the ball and not sure what his tackling stats are like but never seems to be in proximity to make a telling one.

In his defence, simply not his fault, sure he earned his previous reputation in Portugal.

It's not him or even a Rodwell that can stand up and deliver the platform this City team now requires in this type of midfield role.

It takes a very special top drawer marquee. Another Fernandinho, a Vidal, a Pogba.

And that's no failing of Garcia's.

That's not spending the £30m plus that Mancini also knew it needed. And he wanted Fernandinho too.

This is the funny thing about his stats; in my opinion they show a person who doesn't get particularly involved in the primary aspects of the game. A "second ball" player. His tackling and other defensive stats are good but even when you allow for minutes played, his biggest contribution is clearances and other longer balls. He's a player that doesn't really get to involved in the game but when he does it's too recycle possession.

I go back to my original statement in this thread. I don't understand him as a player so don't know how to rate him. I'm not sure whether he is doing his job in picking up the second ball and finding a City man or he isn't doing his job enough by not getting involved. I don't flap when I see him in the team however if he is in midfield. He's solid enough for a third or potentially fourth choice centre mid who we can use to pack the midfield and play keep ball when needed

he's a decent player who's not of the style we need nor of the ultimate quality.

He's like Rodwell in the sense that they were decent/good for their previous side but both those teams quickly found upgrades and would now not want them back.

In reality we've bought ourselves dummies but it's our own fault for not doing the homework properly imo, same with Jovetic who seems a soft arse.