Manchester Schools (The EU)

[117 M34]

The OP is the equivalent of a doctor saying "I'm here to make people better but I don't want to treat the seriously ill, it will affect my patient survival rate and their treatment is expensive".

I appreciate that having students from around the world makes your job more difficult. But the problem here is the way the schools are judged, not the intake. You said yourself that they are all expected to reach the same standards and level, something which is going to be very difficult when the language barrier is there.

Schools where there is a large number of students with English not as their first language should receive more investment and assistance. Maybe even have children reach a certain standard of English before they are placed in the mainstream school system. We should be negotiating with the EU for subsidies to pay for this. If our system is educating EU migrants then we should be recompensed for it.

My school was 99% white British kids who mostly lived on the same estate as me. I would have learned a lot more about different cultures and countries if it had a more mixed intake. What a great place to learn not just maths and English but get a wider perspective on the world and mix with people from different backgrounds. Foreign students can enhance our education system, it's not all negative.

I will never begrudge a child getting an education just because they were born on one side of a line or bit of water. We can be proud of our schools in this country and should continue to invest in them.

Are doctors prevented from having a pay rise or sacked for not getting enough of their patients to feel better? If they were, maybe they also wouldn't like to treat the seriously ill

 

[hilts]

I think it's time @Ric just handed this forum over to one of the anti immigrant right wing groups, it makes sense, all those remaining who are to the left of Nigel Farage - could go elsewhere and the anti immigrant mob could meet more like minded people.


It is an awful look for a football club that is Islamic owned , owns clubs all over the world, has supporters and players for all corners of the globe to be represented on it its biggest supporters forum in this way. I am surprised honestly the club haven't quietly requested that off topic be moved on to a non city forum to be honest.

It's also the same pattern every time, establish a reasonable back story, or say I'm not racist but..... Then an all out attack on immigration and immigrants.

Why not just one thread..... Why now having to open new ones? does it really matter if anti immigration stuff gets lost amongst anti immigration stuff?

It would certainly free up your time mate, I am sure there must be a tell another countries population how to run things forum somewhere in the world.

 

[Balti]

It would certainly free up your time mate, I am sure there must be a tell another countries population how to run things forum somewhere in the world.

they must be gagging for his insight down under

 

[Deleted member 58678]

I didn’t want this to get lost in the toing and froing on the referendum debate and I think it’s worthy of a read/debate in its own right.

I teach in one of Manchester’s most deprived wards and thought the general public may want to know how the EU has impacted on my/other teachers’ ability to actually do what we’re paid to do: teach.

When I started my teaching career, there were very, very few European migrants willing or wanting to settle in the areas I taught: Ancoats, Wythenshawe and Gorton. Classes were mainly made up of children from white non-working or very low income families. That brought (and continues to bring) many difficulties. But language was never one of them. In the relatively short period of the last ten years, I’ve witnessed a sea-change in the schools’ demographics. Increasingly, as is the case with my current school, staff are expected to teach children who bring a multitude of languages and cultures into the classroom. We currently have over 45 languages spoken at my school, the overwhelming majority being European. Staff, particularly in the early years, where the children have no English whatsoever, are left to battle in a system that demands ALL children achieve the same, irrespective of language, income, other influences. So they spend inordinate amounts of time trying to get these kids up to speed - searching the internet for resources in a multitude of languages. . Teaching Assistants are brought in to “shadow” these children, at massive cost to the school budget (your taxes, your wages), just so we can hope to get these children anywhere near speaking our lingo and accessing the English curriculum.

Over the last few weeks I’ve been on home visits for children about to join our Nursery. Families cramped into overcrowded houses, all needing help from the school, the doctors, the council, and many other local services. And almost all these families have arrived, from central, west and north Africa, via Italy, Germany, Spain, France etc. Why that route? Simple - it gets them the magic key, the golden bullet, the EU passport. And so, my school, my staff, have to pick up the pieces of this open-door policy. I’m dealing, daily with families turning up at our school, DEMANDING places. And, as they’re “European”, by and large, they get them.

I attended a meeting last week very near the Etihad, where over 40 local Heads and Deputies had to sit in a room whilst the council placed dozens and dozens of children newly arrived. Looking at the papers that accompanied them:

Last school: unknown Madrass in Pakistan
Nationality: French
Languages spoken: Urdu

But, as always, they hold the magic key, the golden bullet - the EU passport. So, they’re no longer Pakistan’s problem; they’re no longer Bangladesh’s problem; they’re no longer Italy’s problem; they’re no longer Portugal’s problem. They’re mine. And yours.

The system is absolutely creaking; we’re running at full tilt. The pressure on schools is ridiculous. And I put the blame right at the door of the EU. It created a monster called migrancy. And it’s come back to haunt us. Tenfold.

As long as we remain in the EU, YOU will be paying for the likes of me and other school leaders to traipse, every 3-4 weeks to council meetings, to have the newly arrived migrant kids and their families sent to whoever/wherever they’re told to go. You’ll have no say in this matter. Schools won’t either. And it’s costing YOU a fucking fortune. In time, energy and resources.

What I’ve written is the tip of the iceberg.

There can be only one vote in this referendum. The vote to control our own borders; the vote to control our own services. Vote OUT.

I work at a school in one of those deprived areas and at the start of this academic year there were over 1000 children in South Manchester alone without a school place come 1st September because schools are full to the brim and the amount of non-English speaking non-European students we have is astounding.

Where I work classrooms are too small to fit all the students in, where there should be two to a desk there are three on some or there are more sets than classrooms in a department so English lessons are held in a Maths rooms.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

So here we have it, from the horses mouth, (sorry about the analogy Johnny), someone directly on the front line. The only counter I
ever hear to this enormous problem that is straining public services is it's the governments fault for not investing more, as if continually throwing
money at a situation that grows ever worse will improve things, no matter how much is spent; we could solve the problem now with money, but then another
multitude turn up and we're back to square one.

Did you or the OP vote for either of the last two Governments who'se military / bombing campaigns have contributed to immigration problems. I confess I did!

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Did you or the OP vote for either of the last two Governments who'se military / bombing campaigns have contributed to immigration problems. I confess I did!

As far as I'm aware, neither of those two governments have bombed Eastern Europe, Somalia, Ghana, Eritrea, Iran, Albania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Morocco,Bangladesh,or
The Congo, but then again, I rarely read the Daily Mail.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Well done for spectacularly missing the point.

His point was that it's largely a one way street. Britain has a major allure that people from all over the globe are attracted by, and are trying to get to - many via EU passports.

The same isn't true of huge numbers of British families flocking to other EU states, to utilise those same lax freedom of movement rights.

It's overwhelmingly a one way street, one that costs the taxpayer a lot of money and has social consequences as well as financial consequences - as @johnnytapia has demonstrated.

It's a two way street when we factor in the health time bomb we are exporting to places like Malta and Spain with obese pensioners.

I am in favour of more controls over immigration but one of the big drivers is jobs and wages for the kids parents, that we could partly address by training local people better.

Also, the OP is right to be concerned but why are our politicians letting immigrants be so concentrated in certain areas. Why doesn't Jonny refuse to turn up for the Council meetings and force the Councillirs to find more sustainable solutions.

For example, why not have the Council set up concentrated classes for the kids to teach them English in centres before the kids go to the local schools. I guess this would take a little more planning and sounds a bit too easy!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

As far as I'm aware, neither of those two governments have bombed Eastern Europe, Somalia, Ghana, Eritrea, Iran, Albania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Morocco,Bangladesh,or
The Congo, but then again, I rarely read the Daily Mail.

How about places like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya etc. Also, Somalia and Pakistan are being affected by growing extremism that our military campaigns haven't helped.

I said this was a factor, not the whole picture. Workers from Pakistan have come here for generations, partly because we Great Brittish weren't prepared to do less pleasant jobs!

Maybe you need a better education yourself before you read the Daily Mail. I've got sympathy with the OP's situation but it's not a one way street!

 

[Ancient Citizen]

How about places like Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya etc. Also, Somalia and Pakistan are being affected by growing extremism that our military campaigns haven't helped.

I said this was a factor, not the whole picture. Workers from Pakistan have come here for generations, partly because we Great Brittish weren't prepared to do less pleasant jobs!

Maybe you need a better education yourself before you read the Daily Mail. I've got sympathy with the OP's situation but it's not a one way street!

As far as the OP's comments are concerned, a one way street is exactly what it is. Growing extremism is not altogether 'our' fault, we have done nothing to Iran
to induce them to hang gay people from cranes, neither have 'we' had anything to do with influencing Boko Haram.
But we digress, instead of self flagellation and handwringing, the OP is making valid points, (some of those dissecting them have also made fair points), but completely untrammelled
immigration is a great concern. I'm educated enough to read most things, ta muchly.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

As far as the OP's comments are concerned, a one way street is exactly what it is. Growing extremism is not altogether 'our' fault, we have done nothing to Iran
to induce them to hang gay people from cranes, neither have 'we' had anything to do with influencing Boko Haram.
But we digress, instead of self flagellation and handwringing, the OP is making valid points, (some of those dissecting them have also made fair points), but completely untrammelled
immigration is a great concern. I'm educated enough to read most things, ta muchly.

Thanks Ancient Citizen. I'm lost since I accidentally deleted the Daily Mail app on my iPhone lol!

We agree that the OP is raising valid points. I am also not a fan of open door immigration policies that are there to serve rich business owners.

Where we disagree is about what actions / solutions are needed. Based on the information shares by the OP, it is clear that the Council aren't helping much and they could do more as I pointed out in my previous post.

What is unclear is what percentage of school kids are refugees and how many have arrived as EU citizens. Leaving the EU won't do anything regarding refugees or immigration from outsidenthe EU. It was as easy to get into the UK as the OP said there wouldn't be people risking their lives to get here from Calais!

On a wider point, our public service often have to pick up the tab because big industry wants cheaper labour. I know from my previous job (and time spent on Whitehall) that this impact isn't properly reflected in funding allocations. For example, I understand the percentage of GDP being spent on the Heakth Service has fallen back from 9 percent to less than 7 percent.