Maximum Wage Law - Corbyn

[Chippy_boy]

Does anyone really believe Corbyn is electable??

No. /thread.

As I posted earlier, Ed Milliband was unelectable and they've replaced him with someone who in the eyes of the voting public is cut from the same cloth, but much much much worse. When you think about how desperately unpopular Cameron was, the fact Milliband proved to be less appealling than that, is quite staggering. And Corbyn takes it to a new low.

Were there to be a general election tomorrow, and you combine the appeal of UKIP's policies in the labour heartlands, with the anti-charisma and loony left nonsense of Corbyn and his fellow trots, the labour party would be destroyed. I suspect they'd get about 100 seats. At best.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No. /thread.

As I posted earlier, Ed Milliband was unelectable and they've replaced him with someone who in the eyes of the voting public is cut from the same cloth, but much much much worse. When you think about how desperately unpopular Cameron was, the fact Milliband proved to be less appealling than that, is quite staggering. And Corbyn takes it to a new low.

Were there to be a general election tomorrow, and you combine the appeal of UKIP's policies in the labour heartlands, with the anti-charisma and loony left nonsense of Corbyn and his fellow trots, the labour party would be destroyed. I suspect they'd get about 100 seats. At best.

And yet many on the left say that Corbyn's ideas are progressive, and quite mainstream, not far left at all. Well, supporting CND
and unilateral disarmament is left wing, borrowing billions to 'Invest' in the economy, essentially doing what they've always
done and hiring hundreds of thousands more civil servants in a range of created non-jobs is left wing. Allowing completely untrammelled
immigration is a bit lefty, and topping it all off we now have the exciting prospect of a maximum earnings cap to punish those greedy bastards who
have the gall to earn more than he deems enough; how lefty can it get?
I recall Labour in the late 60's and 70's applying an 83% tax rate, plus a further 15% on investments, so, essentially 98% tax; inevitably,
the tax take plummeted, the Rolling Stones doing one abroad (recording the excellent 'Exile on Main Street'), together with hundreds of
others. Then there's the disincentive to bother with any entrepreneurial endeavour, as if you generated a million quid profit, virtually
all of it was snaffled by the taxman.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And yet many on the left say that Corbyn's ideas are progressive, and quite mainstream, not far left at all. Well, supporting CND
and unilateral disarmament is left wing, borrowing billions to 'Invest' in the economy, essentially doing what they've always
done and hiring hundreds of thousands more civil servants in a range of created non-jobs is left wing. Allowing completely untrammelled
immigration is a bit lefty, and topping it all off we now have the exciting prospect of a maximum earnings cap to punish those greedy bastards who
have the gall to earn more than he deems enough; how lefty can it get?
I recall Labour in the late 60's and 70's applying an 83% tax rate, plus a further 15% on investments, so, essentially 98% tax; inevitably,
the tax take plummeted, the Rolling Stones doing one abroad (recording the excellent 'Exile on Main Street'), together with hundreds of
others. Then there's the disincentive to bother with any entrepreneurial endeavour, as if you generated a million quid profit, virtually
all of it was snaffled by the taxman.

The problem for the labour party is the clear, vast in fact, disconnect between a large portion of the 700,000 labour party members and the general public. And in particular, the undecided voter in the general public.

There is of course a certain percentage of the general public who will vote labour no matter what. And indeed there is a smaller part who enthusiastically embrace Corbyn's views. But general elections are won and lost based on how the swing voters swing. In answer to the question "who would make the best Prime Minister Theresa or Jeremy Corbyn?" the last poll I remember had May at 58% and Corbyn at 12%. I don't need to tell anyone that 12% is staggeringly low and completely unelectable on that basis.

The parliamentary labour party fully understand this, and yet spectacularly dropped the ball when trying to oust him. Which I find really bizarre. If Jeremy was really interested in helping the labour party, he'd do the honourable thing and step down.

 

[inbetween]

I think the idea was to draw attention to what he sees as an issue - the idea that you just allow those at the top to get richer and richer and cream more and more off the top without questioning whether that is right is surely an equally bad idea in your eyes or is the way to solve it let them get richer and rely on the discredited "trickle down effect" that the Tories of the 80's relied on?

But it isn't answering a question. Taking money off the rich by restricting salaries will have zero net benefit to the poor, salaries have nothing to do with the trickle down effect.

In the essence of fairness we should also have a sliding scale rule where there is a maximum wage for everyone and not just top executives, yep I don't think that would go down well would it?

If you are talking equality then surely having a maximum wage for all represents equality best but equality for ALL is not on the table is it.

Like I said Corbyn depises anyone who is rich and sees these people as the enemy yet the fact is these people are the ones who create jobs, create wealth and they hold all the keys. So yes lets attack them and make it harder and more bothersome to do it shall we?

The key to getting people out of poverty is not to make the rich poorer to make yourself feel better but it is to create solid, stable jobs and develop an economy based around business where people can be paid and rewarded based upon their merits.

 

[inbetween]

What I find utterly astonishing, is that Ed Milliband spectacularly and very unexpectedly managed to hand the Tories a majority by being too left wing. He dwelled too much on how the state would support them, and not enough on painting a vision about how labour would make people better off personally, and how their standards of living could increase.

Yet bizarrely, Labour have decided to replace this too-left-wing-failure, with someone even further to the left. And the party is under this bizarre illusion that since its trotsky-filled membership is going up, it might actually win a general election. When in fact, nothing could be further from the truth, as the country at large reels at this idiot's ludicrous policies. He is a complete joke to anyone other than the hard left, who are in a tiny minority in this country.

It's a great shame for the Labour party that they have allowed this to happen, and that no-one with the necessary gravitas and stature in the party had the balls to take him on in the last leadership election.

It's a strange one because the Tories are right there for the taking on many things right now. A strong centrist Labour would do well, extremely well, a Blair led Labour now would wipe the floor of the current government. The hot potato right now is Brexit and bizarrely Labour aren't interested and have gone against public opinion on virtually everything related to it. The Lib Dems are the same, even now they are voting down Brexit and thus alienating at least 52% of the electorate, utter madness and is it any wonder they were wiped out last time around.

It just goes to show that Labour is now ideologically driven which is admirable I guess but that ideology is political suicide in this climate. Even the relatively left leaning bastion in Scotland is not interested in them, that really does speak volumes and anyone thinking otherwise is not thinking straight.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The biggest problem is this new membership influx, which rejects out of hand any Blairite influence, or presentation
of Labour as 'Tory Lite,' despite the fact that this stance is the only way they'll get elected, as the odious creep Blair proved,
three times. As for that crackpot Fallon, constantly telling everyone how Brexit is a disaster, and actively pushing for
every obstacle possible to be placed in its way, the LibDems have confirmed they'll never get power, madness indeed.

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's a strange one because the Tories are right there for the taking on many things right now. A strong centrist Labour would do well, extremely well, a Blair led Labour now would wipe the floor of the current government.

I agree. The Tories are a shambles, but incredibly, Labour are an even bigger shambles.

The hot potato right now is Brexit and bizarrely Labour aren't interested and have gone against public opinion on virtually everything related to it. The Lib Dems are the same, even now they are voting down Brexit and thus alienating at least 52% of the electorate, utter madness and is it any wonder they were wiped out last time around.

It just goes to show that Labour is now ideologically driven which is admirable I guess but that ideology is political suicide in this climate. Even the relatively left leaning bastion in Scotland is not interested in them, that really does speak volumes and anyone thinking otherwise is not thinking straight.

I think that's the problem: Corbyn has always been ideologically driven, and a man who likes to protest. He's completely ill-equipped for a leadership role (not to mention him not actually having an ounce of leadership skills.)

 

[Chippy_boy]

The key to getting people out of poverty is not to make the rich poorer to make yourself feel better but it is to create solid, stable jobs and develop an economy based around business where people can be paid and rewarded based upon their merits.

That's a bit radical for some on this forum, mate ;-)

 

[bluethrunthru]

You have it all wrong. Paye takes care of any worries you have about tax avoidance. They don't have a choice it is taken by the company and handed over to hmrc. People used to say all these clever bankers getting bonuses and using tax avoidance schemes to not pay tax is bollox. It's taken immediately under paye.

The people who avoid /manage their tax affairs to minimise it are actors , musicians footballers and the self employed. They have greater flexibility to manage their affairs. However it's a bit much to assume everyone is bent and fiddling tax at the top end. they are not. It is very difficult to avoid paying income tax on income it's automatic. The more likely tax planning to reduce rates is entrepreneurs relief on sale of companies to reduce capital gains tax , but that's lawful mate,

The easiest thing in the world to increase tax revenue without pissing off the public would be to prosecute tax avoidance criminals. They would do it in a heart beat if they could but they are dealing with criminals so it's difficult like catching all criminals.

As someone posted the top 1% quite rightly pay 27% of the uks total tax revenue. They can't all be bent.

I made the PAYE point earlier - I'd put everyone on a taxed at source footing - take it off them and they have to claim back what they think they are entitled to. You'd soon get tax returns completed on time as well.

 

[inbetween]

I agree. The Tories are a shambles, but incredibly, Labour are an even bigger shambles.



I think that's the problem: Corbyn has always been ideologically driven, and a man who likes to protest. He's completely ill-equipped for a leadership role (not to mention him not actually having an ounce of leadership skills.)

A good leader would take an informed position on all aspects responding to the qualms of everyone but he chooses to remove and silence those who oppose or challenge him and his viewpoints. Anyone who does challenge is essentially rooted out, abused and nicknamed a dirty capitalist. The only reason for his success so far is the aggressive, militant groups behind him in the unions and Momentum who represent a tiny minority.

He only talks to those people because really they are the only ones who are remotely interested. His political stock has collapsed elsewhere since and Labour are now 10-15 points behind even someone like Miliband who was swept away. People just aren't interested.