New Brexit thread (with added poll)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Ric, 3 Sep 2017.

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If the Brexit referendum was held now, how would you vote?

  1. Remain

    452 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. Leave

    282 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. Undecided

    19 vote(s)
    2.5%
  1. blueinsa

    blueinsa

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    In a thread thats about to get pulled.
    Just able to read that's all.

    Its a shitter when you use an ex PM as an example of someone who would do the right thing and instead of running away would lead from the front only to find she saw the EU for what it is and would no doubt have led the brexit campaign if she was alive and in power.

    never mind mate.
     
  2. Vic

    Vic

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    11 Jan 2009
    It's a long way from quoting Thatcher on a unified Europe to having no doubt she'd be in favour of Brexit (well, not so long for some).

    But gosh, having Thatcher on the Brexit bus wouid have given the remain campaign a boost.
     
  3. blueinsa

    blueinsa

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    In a thread thats about to get pulled.
    Given her quote it's an even bigger stretch to claim she would have been at the heart of it leading from the front and it's that view i challenged.
     
  4. Ancient Citizen

    Ancient Citizen

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    26 Jul 2009
    Don't be daft, my comment was tongue in cheek, referencing the inter-nation name calling we have with the Welsh
    and Scots. I don't know if you've checked, but how did Wales vote in the referendum?
    The union will not break up, if you think the vote to leave the EU will bring that about, then I can only presume your
    level of hysteria and despair has taken hold and affected cognitive perception.
     
  5. Chippy_boy

    Chippy_boy

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    Evidently not.
     
  6. bluethrunthru

    bluethrunthru

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    Probably to the same degree Bliar's helpful comments help Leave. Some ex-leaders are so devisive that when they are rolled out to support something or other then the opposing side must jump for joy
     
  7. mcfc1632

    mcfc1632

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    2 Jan 2009
    As I have said previously - what pro-Remainers have sought to do - with a degree of success - is to brand Brexit to be a 'Tory thing'. You see lots of posts on here that are full of venom towards the democratic referendum that seem to result from this confusion.

    On a predominately left-biased forum, which despite some silly comments to the contrary Bluemoon certainly is, this has more success than within society in general
     
    Last edited: 14 Feb 2018
  8. Chippy_boy

    Chippy_boy

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    I'm sure Labour are positively salivating at the prospect of Jacob Rees Mogg becoming Tory leader. That should be a useful hint for the Tories, not that any should be needed if they have so much as an atom of common sense.
     
  9. mcfc1632

    mcfc1632

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    2 Jan 2009
    I have given lots of advice to government departments on the procurement and renegotiation of major contracts.

    A common theme that I have had to point out is the widespread culture amongst their people who are 'negotiating major contracts for a living' to simply administer the processes rather than manage them - and certainly their absence of strategic thinking and ability to determine manage the achievement of intended outcomes.

    It is absolutely essential, not just to have the will and ability to walk-away, but to know the conditions that would lead to it being better to terminate arrangements rather than continue futile attempts at renegotiation. This is especially the case when the other party has no intention whatsoever of accepting any suggested changes and indeed, in the case of the EU and UK, have strong incentives and instruction from 'management' to frustrate you in achieving your intended outcomes.

    You keep posting about how we should not be 'running away' and instead that we should be renegotiating changes from within - IMO, this is patently in utter denial of the reality of the situation. Yes, your view would be 'ideal' if the conditions existed that allowed UK requests for change to be objectively heard and a negotiated settlement achieved - they absolutely do not.

    Continuing negotiations in these conditions reflects the height of folly because the other party can play games with impunity - offering you platitudes and false hope to keep you in dialogue, whilst giving up fuck all. The UK/EU relationship has been played out in this fashion for decades and eventually the administrating amateurs - such as Rodgers - have been taken off the job by a public vote to terminate.

    No wonder there was much surprise across the EU - when one party in negotiations gets used to the other side being easy to predict and play games with, it is a real shock when they then act in a strong manner and walk-away. I bet there have been serious questions asked in Berlin - and to a lesser degree Brussels - as to just how Tusk could have fucked up the game playing with Cameron so badly. All he had to do was offer a few 'time-constrained' controls to the UK - but the extent to which the UK has been held in contempt by the EU bureaucrats could not even allow that level of sensible negotiations.

    The Conditions with regards to the UK position within the EU were/are that we would have been forever on the shitty end of the stick and marginalised to an impotent level - incapable of ever effecting change.

    This is why your banging on about us 'running away' and that we should 'have driven change from the centre' is just utter denial of the reality IMO.

    To save making this an overly-long post - I will separately post an example of successful negotiations with the EU. This will show that it is possible to get the EU to follow the lead of a single nation - like you suggest the UK should be doing - but demonstrate how the UK would never be provided with that opportunity.
     
    Last edited: 14 Feb 2018
  10. mcfc1632

    mcfc1632

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    2 Jan 2009
    @Chippy - surely you would not disagree with MT?
     

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