Nicolas Otamendi - 2017/18 performances

Discussion in 'Player Performances' started by ADegenerate, 27 Jul 2017.

  1. Neville Kneville

    Neville Kneville

    Joined:
    26 May 2008
    Location:
    Chorlton
    I'm gathering from this that you have no fucking idea whatsoever how the defence should line up. thus have no idea why Otamendi was in the wrong position, irrespective of offside or no offside trap.

    Well I'm not gathering it actually, I already know it from your previous posts.

    You haven't got a fucking scooby & nobody will be able to educate you, as you are incapable of ever learning anything, from watching football & only see it in its simplest form.
     
  2. domalino

    domalino

    Joined:
    27 Mar 2011
    I'm starting to genuinely think you're just clueless now, before I thought you were just defending a favourite player.

    Shame.
     
  3. Dax777

    Dax777

    Joined:
    20 Dec 2010
    Here we go again with the clueless pretending to be knowledgeable.

    Its tiring. Just admit when you are wrong. A CH dropping off while his partner pressures the next pass is such a staple of City football: Its does it, Kompany does it, Stones was attempting it in that situation.

    Bit all you clueless folks who pretend to find complexity when you are just flat wrong are all laughable.

    You really are not suggesting Otamendi should have step up 10 yards aand if Stones get neat with a quick touch, Ota has no chance of being in play.

    Really? Thsts what you are going with? Pack it in already. You've been wrong 2ice on a 10 second clip. How can anyone trust your judgement on a 90 minute game?
     
  4. Dax777

    Dax777

    Joined:
    20 Dec 2010
    The refuge of those who have no point. Resort to insults :)

    Predictable.
     
  5. Manchester_lalala

    Manchester_lalala

    Joined:
    9 Jul 2008
    I'll admit when he does good. I still don't trust a defence with stones and otamendi playing together, my opinion hasn't changed after one game against poor opposition.
     
  6. Neville Kneville

    Neville Kneville

    Joined:
    26 May 2008
    Location:
    Chorlton
    I've already clearly admitted i missed the fact that Danilo was wrong to play offside. It's posted on here & whatsmore I've even discussed the point more than once, so how the fucking hell, can you be posting now, telling me I've not accepted it ?

    Irrespective, Otamendi IS IN THE WRONG PLACE.

    How do I know this ? Because I understand the fucking basics of football.

    Have a look at 30:03 first half, you know when Salah runs straight through for what should have been the equaliser ?

    Have a look at Stones & the two new guys, in a line, you know like that word 'defensive line' & have a look where the other cb, who has been at the club for longest, is stood & the fucking red shirt of Salah, stood, behind our backline in what would have been an offside position apart from the bearded wonder,stood several yards behind our backline playing him onside.

    This is the fucking stuff, people such as myself see, which you haven't got a fucking statistic for, so therefore, it never happened.

    And of course they didn't score, so who cares right ? Just like when he was hopelessly out of position when Danilo made that mistake. Hey it doesn't matter, as someone else fucked up as well, so Otamendi was fine.

    No, he wasn't, he was fucking shite.

    Today, he came back from it well & I said so, because it's equally true.

    Nobody knows, what we'll get from him at the weekend.
     
  7. Dax777

    Dax777

    Joined:
    20 Dec 2010
    Again, you and too many on this site are all about instances. You love it. So do the silly pundits on TV.

    1. Otamendi was NOT IN THE WRONG PLACE on the Danilo error. He was where common sense suggests he should be. (I'll explain why in a minute.) But even more importantly, I am happy you brought up the example of minute 30, coz it highlights the very point that was at issue in the Danilo (fake offside trap) scenario.

    2. City does this almost everytime. When an opposing defender or midfielder has the ball with no pressure, the CH closest to his outlet pass, attacks the outlet pass receiver, while the other defender or defenders (when we are playing a 3) retreat as cover. This sequence is ubiquitous in City football. It's a staple. You see Otamend/Kompany execute it, you see Stones/Otamendi do it, Stones/Kompany You name it, they do it. This sequence is a staple of City defending.

    3. City 95% of the time set their Offside trap just above the 18 yard. This too is another consistent pattern you find. happened at least 3 times in the 1st 45 minutes. These things I mention are easy to spot. they happen weekly, and often in every game without fail.

    Now let's take 30.03 but start at earlier, so you can understand the sequence... A midfielder is on the ball with no pressure on him, an attacker (Mane) turns to open himself up as an option, closest defender (Danilo) immediately closes Mane down as other defenders (Stones and Otamendi) retreat to play support to the pressure defender. Mane shrugs off Danilo and faces the defense going left to right, Otamendi turns to follow his movement, at that point he sees Salah who had just released off Mendy's back shoulder, then Otamendi does the stupid thing of trying set a fake offside line.

    there are 2 problems here, 1 City doesn't set offside lines that high, normally, 2 it was a last second attempt to cheat like Danilo did 6 minutes later. Otamendi being where he was was not an error, him trying to pull a last second "Danillo-esque fake offside trap" was dumb. The actual footballing error was Mendy's. Having no clue where he's man in that sequence was why Otamendi, like Danilo later attempt a fake Offside..

    which brings me to why Otamendi wasn't in the wrong place at minute 36. Again just as in minute 30, an opponent with no pressure is on the ball (Matip), an attacker opens up as an option to receive the ball (Firmino), immediately the closest defender charges towards him (Stones), while the other defenders retreat to play support and pick up runners. As John exits the middle to pressure Firmino, Mane sees an opportunity and cuts to the middle, Danilo should have simply dropped off and kept the play and Mane in front of him, instead he panicked and took a step back, then changed his mind and tried an offside even though there was a defender behind him covering a different playerhis man correctly.

    now lets compare Otamendi's positioning at 36 to Mendy's at 30. at 36, Otamendi has Salah in his sights, to his outside and a foot ahead of him. he can see both the ball career (Matip) and his responsibility (Salah). This is basic good defensive positioning 40 yards from your goal. Now compare that to Mendy at 30, as Mane is wiggling free from Danilo, Mendy's back is turned on his responsibility, so he has no idea what his responsibility is doing. Salah peels off his back, for a through ball. Yes Ota was farthest back and Kept Salah onside. but he was supposed to be there. His job in that sequence is to drop off and pick any new runners.

    that sequence or a similar version happened at least 18 times against Liverpool by my count. Only about 4 times did the support defender not drop off and pick up a runner. in 2 of those 4 situations, we scored a goal.

    The static view of football that is so pervasive here is tiring :(

    I can't be writing epistles about how you continue to be wrong...
     
    Last edited: 14 Sep 2017 at 6:31 AM
  8. Neville Kneville

    Neville Kneville

    Joined:
    26 May 2008
    Location:
    Chorlton
    So you've spent god knows how long, trying to fabricate a complete pile of utter tripe to respond to something I spotted in real time, watching it once, hence why I missed Danilo ?

    And trying to make out a partridge shoot of defending is some kind of organised plan, with the Bearded Wonder as the hero.

    Stick with the stats.

    Utterly clueless.
     
  9. MarsLlama

    MarsLlama

    Joined:
    23 May 2016
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow, what an incredible overreaction.
     
  10. Dax777

    Dax777

    Joined:
    20 Dec 2010
    don't have an issue with you missing Danillo in realtime. Just saying sometime there is more to football than your elementary last second freeze frame 'last man seen - you are it,' declaration.

    Again, in your fervent misstatement of the argument here, you are doing exactly what' you've accused me of-pretending I have not concluded Otamendi had a bad game. I did. So its impossible to pretend the "bearded one" is a hero. The moment he mis-kicked a simple clearance and got himself a yellow card a few seconds later diving in, he became a dud the rest of the game. Often backing off defensively and given Salah every opportunity to pick the right choice- we were simply lucky Salah didn't.

    this however shouldn't be confused with explaining the rightness of his general positioning in specific instances. Somehow this nuance seems to befuddle you. For the life of me I don't know why.

    Good man :)

    In fairness, thought he had a nondescript game against Feyernord. Didn't seem to have much to do. But in truth, I only watched that game once as Fox sports app don't have replays like NBC sports does.

    So o can get quite granular with our league games in a manner I can't with CL games. But my overall impression was that he and Stones were only minimally bothered.
     

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