Pep's tactics

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pep is here to show this country intelligence trumps physicality.
It's undeniable!

Thanks for your point. Well, I start to think it's better for me to stop arguing in this thread for a while. We'll see in a month and continue) Anyway, I like this additional 'tactical intrigue'. It's the reason why I love 'total football' coaches so much) Shame that they are so rare.
 
It's undeniable!

Thanks for your point. Well, I start to think it's better for me to stop arguing in this thread for a while. We'll see in a month and continue) Anyway, I like this additional 'tactical intrigue'. It's the reason why I love 'total football' coaches so much) Shame that they are so rare.

Cool. Agree on the total football coaches. We may disagree on other points but I enjoy your posts nevertheless!
 
Just caught up with this thread - so I was wondering if Hungarian Blue (first post on this thread) could shed any light on my musings posted on the False 9 thread. Thanks if you are still there
Hungarian Blue - after 30 pages of this thread,/

"""For any of you old enough - I think the term false 9 - came about in 1953 - when Hideguthi played for Hungary (and Honved) against England(defeated 6-3 at Wembley
and 7-1 in Budapest.
Johnny Williamson played deep for City reserves at the beginning of 1954 season and later it became the Revie plan.
The meejah think they have found a new term - in false 9 - but it has been around well before most of them were born - lol......"""
 
The fundamental difference between those that think Gundogan can play the pivot and those that don't depends totally on whether you think it's a defensive position or attacking. With Pep it's all about starting the attacks but having the intelligence to be in the right place at the right time. Gundogan ticks those boxes.
 
Just caught up with this thread - so I was wondering if Hungarian Blue (first post on this thread) could shed any light on my musings posted on the False 9 thread. Thanks if you are still there
Hungarian Blue - after 30 pages of this thread,/

"""For any of you old enough - I think the term false 9 - came about in 1953 - when Hideguthi played for Hungary (and Honved) against England(defeated 6-3 at Wembley
and 7-1 in Budapest.
Johnny Williamson played deep for City reserves at the beginning of 1954 season and later it became the Revie plan.
The meejah think they have found a new term - in false 9 - but it has been around well before most of them were born - lol......"""

Hey :)

I will find the time to look at that thread too in the near future, just not exactly now.

But basically yeas, Hidegkuti was probably the first 'major' player who played in this role (of course hardly the first one who ever existed, but maybe you can get more info from Jonathan Wilson's Inverting the Pyramide book, or if not, then I'll paste you the referring part). And then it became a popular thing, sort of. Most of the opponents couldn't really decide whether to track the '9' back into the middle area or just defend their own area, so it caused havoc, especially as other attackers were exploiting that space - and Kocsis or Puskas weren't too bad either. :)

Our (City's) current system when attacking (2-3-5) is actually something similar, too. :)
 
Good post. Cheers! Maldeika, I don't think we can read much into these numbers other than that significant part of Pep's work still remains. Patient and well-planned build up from the deep with the lightning fast wing attacks is what made Pep's final year's Bayern so special. The thing is, I doubt Carlo has knowledge to sustain 'Juego de Posicion' style, he has already switched to an old-fashioned counter attacking mode and looked more than vulnerable against a modern pressing team in the Supercup. It will be something mixed this year, and Bayern has a good chance of winning the CL. But once all the remaining bits of Pep's work are finally dissolved, it can be a very rude awakening. IMO Carlo is a slighly outdated coach whos strongest point is using players' individual capabilities, but I'd dare to say your squad is not the best in Europe anymore. Tuchel could continue Pep's legacy, but you've passed on him, unfortunately.

I would not bet on that - Ancelotti is different from Pep but not worse. He will not make a revolution.

The Supercup - you mean that match in which Dortmund started with a team with 11 players who have been in preparation since starting July including a thousand test matches against a team in which most of the starters have been in training since a week without test match? At the end of that match the players with the week training looked a lot fresher than their counterparts. This Supercup match looked exactly like the one a year ago - with Pep (Tuchel had more ball possession than, too, and it was even less shots of Bayern to even more shots of Dortmund - with the only difference that Bayern won now.

There is not much differences to see right now at Bayern - maybe that because of the injuries we play a 4-3-3 and the fullbacks push high as both Ribery and Müller move inside. But we have played in so many different variations with Pep - not always did the fullbacks move into midfield. In my eyes it was balanced so much because in every triangle Alaba-Vidal-Ribery and Lahm-Thiago-Müller there was a "playmaker" in Thiago and Ribery. It might get different again when Robben, Coman and Costa are available - Ancelotti already told that he for sure does not see Müller as a right winger even if he can play his version of it with his intelligence. There often will be Vidal-Thiago-Müller behind Lewy with two wingers, too.

The main difference right now is that Ancelotti let's the players some more freedom - that is actually fine as they are anyways very disciplined and there is "some little coaches" in the team. Pep is great - but he probably was right when he told that three years are enough and the players need a new input. 3 years with him cannot just drain him out but the players, too.

What made me looking for the passes - and then I thought it gets really interesting and I tried to find an explanation for it - was that I was comparing which team parts of both teams (yours and ours) had the majority of passes and I knew that Thiago had about 120.

I have seen parts of your matches now - there is still a lot to improve when it means positioning etc. - and then the passing will be faster, more one touch, less running. You cannot see that so much in detail - but I guess you will see that in the rising numbers of passes that your team will play.
 
Hey :)

I will find the time to look at that thread too in the near future, just not exactly now.

But basically yeas, Hidegkuti was probably the first 'major' player who played in this role (of course hardly the first one who ever existed, but maybe you can get more info from Jonathan Wilson's Inverting the Pyramide book, or if not, then I'll paste you the referring part). And then it became a popular thing, sort of. Most of the opponents couldn't really decide whether to track the '9' back into the middle area or just defend their own area, so it caused havoc, especially as other attackers were exploiting that space - and Kocsis or Puskas weren't too bad either. :)

Our (City's) current system when attacking (2-3-5) is actually something similar, too. :)

Cheers for that HungBlue..............and Kocsis or Puskas weren't too bad either. :) (brilliant understatament !!.)
 
For all interested - the analysis of Pep-Mou clash from Pep's last season with Barcelona. IMO, those 'clasicos' from 2011, 2012 are unrivaled in terms of quality&intensity since then.

Guardiola’s men wrestle control with structural shift
Jose Mourinho’s Real Madrid met Guardiola’s Barcelona at the Bernabeu on the evening of the 10th of December 2011. Mourinho’s men went into the game with a 3 point advantage and were desperate to add to their solitary victory over their arch-rivals in Mourinho’s tenure.
http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/09/04/guardiolas-men-wrestle-control-with-structural-shift/

The game can be re-watched here: http://footballia.net/matches/real-madrid-fc-barcelona-liga-1-division-2011-2012
 
I would not bet on that - Ancelotti is different from Pep but not worse. He will not make a revolution.

The Supercup - you mean that match in which Dortmund started with a team with 11 players who have been in preparation since starting July including a thousand test matches against a team in which most of the starters have been in training since a week without test match? At the end of that match the players with the week training looked a lot fresher than their counterparts. This Supercup match looked exactly like the one a year ago - with Pep (Tuchel had more ball possession than, too, and it was even less shots of Bayern to even more shots of Dortmund - with the only difference that Bayern won now.

There is not much differences to see right now at Bayern - maybe that because of the injuries we play a 4-3-3 and the fullbacks push high as both Ribery and Müller move inside. But we have played in so many different variations with Pep - not always did the fullbacks move into midfield. In my eyes it was balanced so much because in every triangle Alaba-Vidal-Ribery and Lahm-Thiago-Müller there was a "playmaker" in Thiago and Ribery. It might get different again when Robben, Coman and Costa are available - Ancelotti already told that he for sure does not see Müller as a right winger even if he can play his version of it with his intelligence. There often will be Vidal-Thiago-Müller behind Lewy with two wingers, too.

The main difference right now is that Ancelotti let's the players some more freedom - that is actually fine as they are anyways very disciplined and there is "some little coaches" in the team. Pep is great - but he probably was right when he told that three years are enough and the players need a new input. 3 years with him cannot just drain him out but the players, too.

What made me looking for the passes - and then I thought it gets really interesting and I tried to find an explanation for it - was that I was comparing which team parts of both teams (yours and ours) had the majority of passes and I knew that Thiago had about 120.

I have seen parts of your matches now - there is still a lot to improve when it means positioning etc. - and then the passing will be faster, more one touch, less running. You cannot see that so much in detail - but I guess you will see that in the rising numbers of passes that your team will play.

Interesting post. The one difference between pep's bayern and pep's city is that Bayern had just won the treble so their players probably didn't want to buy into his philospohy fully because they were already at the top, which explains why players like ribery and muller didn't like his tactics. The difference at city is that the players aren't in their primes yet and are wanting to learn to improve their games, see sterling as an example
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.