Pep's tactics

[blueinsa]

Leon Brittons comments about us gave me a little smile. Basically saying the pressed well but couldn't cope with our passing and movement, also says were the best team he's faced in the prem. He mentions the importance of bravo too.

He also backs up what many of us are saying about Bravo and the absolute importance his selection has in the way we play and its success.

edit. skim read your post and missed the last sentence so apologies.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Anyone can see the way City play (ok there's the occasional surprise - e.g. fullbacks pushed forward and inside) - what counts though are the in-flight tweaks to exploit opposition weaknesses or diminish opposition strengths. Defensively we occupy space to stop the opposition and offensively we overload on the opposition in areas of the pitch. I've never seen a manager like Pep who does this to such a level. It is so simple and so elegant. What's more he gets the players to buy into this approach by fully explaining what their roles are to make these tweaks possible.

The end result is it will be very difficult for any opposition manager to produce a scheme that works against us. They may close one door but Pep will simply tweak the formation and open another. What is most interesting is that no pundit or journalist has reported on this aspect of our game yet so either they're thick or don't want to worry the great unwashed.

 

[Kompany is King]

Not sure where to post.

Paco Jemez has left Grenada. Think there was talk of Coric signing for City & moving on loan to Granada because of Jemez style of football. Similar to Pep.

 

[bluevillain]

In its simplest form Pep's style is really basic but clever.
We play with a flying goalie and the opposition has a stick goalie.

 

[Andrew___K]

I've just googled Pochettino's head-to-head record vs Pep. It's 1W, 3D in 9 games which is not that bad if you consider the gulf in class between their former teams. And the first of those games is 2-1 away victory for Espanyol (Camp Nou, Feb 2009), the first win in Poch's managerial carreer! Poch was formed under the influence of one of Pep's idols - Marcelo Bielsa, so can be named a representative of the same coaching school in a broad sense. Prefers high-pressing, ball possession and quick attacks just like Pep.
What's interesting, the Sunday game will be the first encounter with more or less equal firepower on both sides. Hence the question: what is the expected scenario in a 'tactical' regard, what do you think? Will Pep try give up the territory, absorb the pressure and hit on counters, or will use more aggressive approach, like at OT?

Recalling Pep's away games vs Pochettino, the one that stands out for me is Espanyol-Barcelona, La Liga, 2010 Dec 10. It was one of the games that showed Pep's adaptability: he decided to weather Poch's pressing storm, sit deeper that usual and attack the space behind Espanyol defenders, using Messi as a transitional 'trequartista'.

Hope I don't breach any rules by posting it: http://footballia.net/matches/rcd-espanyol-fc-barcelona-liga-1-division

What I very much like about this record is the camera angle - you can assess literally every team move as the cam stands very high and there are no too many annoying close-ups.

 

[Andrew___K]

Istvan Beregi, MTK Budapest match analyst, wrote a piece on City's positional play this season
http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/06/27/manchester-city-positional-play-analysis/

His in-depth analysis of Pep's last season at Bayern is also brilliant:
https://thetacticalanalyst.wordpress.com/2016/06/06/bayern-munich-a-mega-analysis/

 

[bluemonkey71]

Bloody ell that's detailed

 

[Andrew___K]

@Armaan , @hilts , moved here as we went too far in Evans thread :)

Real Madrid do have a top defensive midfielder though in Casemeiro. Modric and Kroos have always been centre mids so they aren't comparable to David and kdb who are number 10s. We should buy two top class centre midfielders and control the game that way.

Well, we'll buy them. DM and probably DLP. Right now we have a poor pivot and 3 good CMs - KdB+Silvas (actually, 5 if we count Gundogan and Foden) which is enough to win this league. Enough to implement the game model to steadily develop it, no need to switch to a different way of playing. Otherwise Pep's appointment stops to make any sense.

Some players are changing their positions and learning new things, but it's normal, it helps them to bring out their best qualities. That's why all the talk about 'playing out of position' or 'using 10 as centre mids' is a nonsence, it became clear in 70s that total versatility is the way forward, best coaches were talking about it for ages. I don't think 'tactics' or 'formations' are that important for Guardiola, he teaches players to make good decisions in any situation, not to play '10 role ' or 'midfielder role'. Watch the games of 2012 Barca - tactical setup was hardly of any importance as the players were so good that they could act according to the situation and adapt quickly. I remember one of the Clasicos when it was impossible to say what position Busquets is playing - CB or DM, he was shifting seamlessly.

You're referring to Kroos and Modric, but Madrid's tactics isn't a benchmark, it has many flaws and is fairly conservative, Pep knows about possession game much more than Madrid's staff. So don't worry mate, he knows how to train midfielders. And you're surely overestimating Casemiro, he's just an average ball-winner playing in a very good team. Performs his functions well though, but Pep would sell him to play someone like M.Llorente, I have no doubt about it.

And in the last 20 years how many titles were won without midfielders with a bit of defensive nouse. I can make it easier for you how many in the last 5 years?

Plenty of top European sides have that blend in their midfield perhaps they are all mike Bassett types as well. Even pep himself likes a guy who can get stuck in a bit

I'm not saying that midfielders shouldn't be 'Bassetts'. They should, but not at the cost of ball-control/passing/press-resistance!
To put it simply, every player should have 'a bit of defensive nouse' and be able to take part in a build-up without losing the ball. Guardiola teaches that a lot. Have you noticed how D.Silva's pressing/defending has changed? Can he get stuck in now?

There simply shouldn't be a division into defensive and attacking players, all are defending and attacking, including striker and keeper. Thus the discussion about adding more defensive players doesn't make any sense. If we can find the 8 like Davids who combines good ball-control with a phenomenal defensive tenacity, fine. But if we don't, we'll make Bernardo Silva perform the same functions. Since the team defends mostly by pressing/closing passing lanes/setting traps, he doesn't need to jump into tackles to be effective, those days are long gone. It's more effective to retain the ball by Bernardo and save team's energy than lose it 10 times and use Kantes to tackle opponents.

As for 'plenty of European sides' - Guardiola is slightly ahead of his time and such comparisons don't work. Watch 2008-2012 Barca, all answers are there.

Edit: Of course, all players should defend well. That's why I can't understand the recent 'Sane can't defend, he's ruined as a wingback' stance. If a wing player can't defend, in an ideal world he shouldn't play at all, be it winger, wingback or fullback. Or man up and learn how to do it.

 

[hilts]

@Armaan , @hilts , moved here as we went too far in Evans thread :)

Well, we'll buy them. DM and probably DLP. Right now we have a poor pivot and 3 good CMs - KdB+Silvas (actually, 5 if we count Gundogan and Foden) which is enough to win this league. Enough to implement the game model to steadily develop it, no need to switch to a different way of playing. Otherwise Pep's appointment stops to make any sense.

Some players are changing their positions and learning new things, but it's normal, it helps them to bring out their best qualities. That's why all the talk about 'playing out of position' or 'using 10 as centre mids' is a nonsence, it became clear in 70s that total versatility is the way forward, best coaches were talking about it for ages. I don't think 'tactics' or 'formations' are that important for Guardiola, he teaches players to make good decisions in any situation, not to play '10 role ' or 'midfielder role'. Watch the games of 2012 Barca - tactical setup was hardly of any importance as the players were so good that they could act according to the situation and adapt quickly. I remember one of the Clasicos when it was impossible to say what position Busquets is playing - CB or DM, he was shifting seamlessly.

You're referring to Kroos and Modric, but Madrid's tactics isn't a benchmark, it has many flaws and is fairly conservative, Pep knows about possession game much more than Madrid's staff. So don't worry mate, he knows how to train midfielders. And you're surely overestimating Casemiro, he's just an average ball-winner playing in a very good team. Performs his functions well though, but Pep would sell him to play someone like M.Llorente, I have no doubt about it.

I'm not saying that midfielders shouldn't be 'Bassetts'. They should, but not at the cost of ball-control/passing/press-resistance!
To put it simply, every player should have 'a bit of defensive nouse' and be able to take part in a build-up without losing the ball. Guardiola teaches that a lot. Have you noticed how D.Silva's pressing/defending has changed? Can he get stuck in now?

There simply shouldn't be a division into defensive and attacking players, all are defending and attacking, including striker and keeper. Thus the discussion about adding more defensive players doesn't make any sense. If we can find the 8 like Davids who combines good ball-control with a phenomenal defensive tenacity, fine. But if we don't, we'll make Bernardo Silva perform the same functions. Since the team defends mostly by pressing/closing passing lanes/setting traps, he doesn't need to jump into tackles to be effective, those days are long gone. It's more important to retain the ball and save team's energy than lose it 10 times and use Kantes to tackle opponents.

As for 'plenty of European sides' - Guardiola is slightly ahead of his time and such comparisons don't work. Watch 2008-2012 Barca, all answers are there.

Edit: Of course, all players should defend well. That's why I can't understand the recent 'Sane can't defend, he's ruined as a wingback' stance. If a wing player can't defend, in an ideal world he shouldn't play at all, be it winger, wingback or fullback. Or man up and learn how to do it.

All the above sounds great fella but I watch the games and see the deficiencies but players like sane,KDB and silva seem to have greater lung capacity and work effort going in a certain direction and it isn't heading towards our own goal. Possession is good but at some point you need players who can and want to defend a little.

Like I said name me the teams who have won the title since 1997 without it. I presume we are trying to win the league as opposed to a vanity project

 

[blueinsa]

All Pep chat to go in his own performance thread from now on please ladies and gents.