Player topic: Yaya Toure 2014/15 (continued)

[schfc6]

.......Fernandinho.........
..Pogba..........Toure....
Silva...............Sterling/De Bruyne
...........Aguero...........

Now that's a team. Delighted if he stays. In a central 3, we'll see him return to his very best. I agree, I believe he's been told of our summer plans. With Toure staying. I see likely leavers as Jivetic, Dzeko & Nasri being the big names.

 

[hgblue]

.......Fernandinho.........
..Pogba..........Toure....
Silva...............Sterling/De Bruyne
...........Aguero...........

Now that's a team. Delighted if he stays. In a central 3, we'll see him return to his very best. I agree, I believe he's been told of our summer plans. With Toure staying. I see likely leavers as Jivetic, Dzeko & Nasri being the big names.

Not bad. The only question I'd have is whether Fernandinho is capable of playing the holding midfield role because I don't see him as defensively sound enough and if not, whether Fernando is good enough to play there against the very best.

 

[BillyShears]

I tend to agree but I would like to see us set up so that we can accommodate some freedom for Yaya and Silva. What we cannot do is expect the rest of the team to constantly cover for the two of them; that's not how it works now and not how it should work in the future.

It's pretty simple for me in that sense. The collective cannot be sacrificed for midfield players whether it's silva or toure. The only player who gets a pass in our side is Kun when it comes to defensive duties because he is at his most dangerous on the shoulder of the last defender. The rest of them need to show the kind of defensive work rate and intensity that you see from sides like Bayern and Barca. As I said in a previous post, in many respects Silva has been a bigger issue for me than Toure from a defensive point of view. He has allowed too many big games to pass him by and allowed himself to be bullied. Every time I think about that Arsenal game and the way in which Cazorla had Silva on toast it infuriates me.

 

[Bewar3them00n]

The issue with Yaya, is that he has no rival for that position, admittedly, he's a one of a kind, but if we could unearth/buy a player who can do something similar to Yaya, or allow the team to function is such a way that there is no hole left by his absence, we can both give him some competition, and allow his to not be played every game.
I think he should also retire from International competion

 

[HelloCity]

It's pretty simple for me in that sense. The collective cannot be sacrificed for midfield players whether it's silva or toure. The only player who gets a pass in our side is Kun when it comes to defensive duties because he is at his most dangerous on the shoulder of the last defender. The rest of them need to show the kind of defensive work rate and intensity that you see from sides like Bayern and Barca. As I said in a previous post, in many respects Silva has been a bigger issue for me than Toure from a defensive point of view. He has allowed too many big games to pass him by and allowed himself to be bullied. Every time I think about that Arsenal game and the way in which Cazorla had Silva on toast it infuriates me.

My argument against that would be that Silva has had Cazorla on toast far more often than vice versa.

 

[BillyShears]

My argument against that would be that Silva has had Cazorla on toast far more often than vice versa.

That's actually my argument too. Silva is a much better player than Cazorla and has the same ability to fight when he needs to. But this season too many times he's seemingly given up on a match long before it's over.

I dunno, part of me thinks that this core of players have been around too long now without being given any real competition and that needs to change big time this summer. Competition for places will hopefully help restore that extra 20% I think we've lacked from Silva, Toure, etc.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

this thing about Silva being poor defensively is bollocks. granted he's not Chris smalling but he puts in a good shift most of the time. people need to watch the match more clearly instead of listening to Muppets like rat face Neville. he's also usually our most consistent player when we play the big games. so I don't know what you mean when you say too many games pass him by. I suppose everyone sees things differently.

 

[NQCitizen]

this thing about Silva being poor defensively is bollocks. granted he's not Chris smalling but he puts in a good shift most of the time. people need to watch the match more clearly instead of listening to Muppets like rat face Neville. he's also usually our most consistent player when we play the big games. so I don't know what you mean when you say too many games pass him by. I suppose everyone sees things differently.

Repeatedly our worst Champions League performances came when the best European managers picked on Silva's left wing to attack.

Nasri actually does a better job protecting his full back but realistically he never receives much credit for anything.

 

[BillyShears]

this thing about Silva being poor defensively is bollocks. granted he's not Chris smalling but he puts in a good shift most of the time. people need to watch the match more clearly instead of listening to Muppets like rat face Neville. he's also usually our most consistent player when we play the big games. so I don't know what you mean when you say too many games pass him by. I suppose everyone sees things differently.

The thing we're talking about though is that whether the game is big or small, our players collectively need to show a level of consistency both defensively as well as when they're attacking. It's something which stood out in our CL games as well as the recent games against Liverpool and Arsenal. Silva may well have been excellent in an attacking sense, but the side cannot carry passengers defensively at that level. It's got nothing to do with what pundits, say, it's common sense. If Silva doesn't do his job defensively then that's an extra man that our defensive players need to be dealing with. The knock on effect when you're talking about top sides can be incredibly damaging because top sides just need a bit of space to create a goal.

Think about the Barca matches (both of them) and just how little time and space we had on the ball especially the further up the pitch we got. This was because Barca's midfield stuck to ours like glue whereas our midfield was always a yard off their man when it mattered. For me it's part of why Barca look so fucking good this season - yes they have three of the best forwards in the world in their frontline, but behind those three they have a midfield which collectively works it's bollocks off on the defensive side of the game. They didn't give Bayern a sniff, didn't give us a sniff, probably won't give Juve a sniff. We're talking about Busquets, Iniesta, and Rakitic. I don't believe that those three players' talent is so much better than anyone else's that no one can best them. They are unbelievably well drilled and unbelievably hungry.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

The thing we're talking about though is that whether the game is big or small, our players collectively need to show a level of consistency both defensively as well as when they're attacking. It's something which stood out in our CL games as well as the recent games against Liverpool and Arsenal. Silva may well have been excellent in an attacking sense, but the side cannot carry passengers defensively at that level. It's got nothing to do with what pundits, say, it's common sense. If Silva doesn't do his job defensively then that's an extra man that our defensive players need to be dealing with. The knock on effect when you're talking about top sides can be incredibly damaging because top sides just need a bit of space to create a goal.

Think about the Barca matches (both of them) and just how little time and space we had on the ball especially the further up the pitch we got. This was because Barca's midfield stuck to ours like glue whereas our midfield was always a yard off their man when it mattered. For me it's part of why Barca look so fucking good this season - yes they have three of the best forwards in the world in their frontline, but behind those three they have a midfield which collectively works it's bollocks off on the defensive side of the game. They didn't give Bayern a sniff, didn't give us a sniff, probably won't give Juve a sniff. We're talking about Busquets, Iniesta, and Rakitic. I don't believe that those three players' talent is so much better than anyone else's that no one can best them. They are unbelievably well drilled and unbelievably hungry.

Yup, agree with all of that. Silva was unquestionably negligent defensively at times this season, although not, in my eyes anyway, as much as Toure was. What was noticeable though was subsequent to that embarrassment at the Swamp, Silva put in much more of a shift, and ironically I thought that perhaps that enhanced tenacity contributed to an elevated attacking performance level as well from the wee man. He was already my Player of the Season prior to the last 6 or 7 games, but some of the stuff he produced against Swansea, QPR and Spurs was superb even by his standards