R. I. P. The 39

[Cellarite]

For me it's never been about the sentencing more about the lack of contrition from the club.
The tendency to speak about hillsborough when discussing heysel stems from a feeling of annoyance that a club so vociferous and determined to see justice done could be so mute about a tragedy that also involved their supporters.
What happened at hillsborough was a result of mistakes being made and the aftermath of lies and cover-ups meant the truth had to be rightly sought after but no-one set out to cause physical damage to another human, something that can't be said about heysel.
Liverpools end of season review that year glossed over the tragedy suggesting it was time to move on and the commemorative plaque to those that lost their lives took 25 years to be put up.
It is a stain on the clubs name that what little contrition they have shown has been almost dragged out of them over the years and it's especially sad that a higher value seems to have been attached to the memory of some people's lives than others.

So if Hillsborough hadn't happened, Heysel wouldn't get brought up as much? That's kind of the point I've been posting throughout the thread.

 

[rabby]

The point you've consistently been making is to ask what justice people want now,apart from a few jokey comments about JTF39 which I don't think to many people are serious about,most people I suspect are more interested about the clubs attitude since heysel.
Even if hillsborough never happened I would like to think most people would still be disappointed in Liverpools response since then.

 

[malg]

Don't know if it's been posted, but I see some 50 year old bloke has been charged because he wore a tshirt mocking Hillsborough - hope to fuck he's a Rag.

 

[jimharri]

Don't know if it's been posted, but I see some 50 year old bloke has been charged because he wore a tshirt mocking Hillsborough - hope to fuck he's a Rag.

http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/hillsborough-verdicts-reached.321513/page-44

;-)

 

[Cellarite]

The point you've consistently been making is to ask what justice people want now,apart from a few jokey comments about JTF39 which I don't think to many people are serious about,most people I suspect are more interested about the clubs attitude since heysel.
Even if hillsborough never happened I would like to think most people would still be disappointed in Liverpools response since then.

As would I. To suggest that people aren't being spiteful by comparing the two is fanciful to say the least though.

Heysel was a disgrace, no doubt about it. I don't see many threads started to pay tribute to those who perished at Valley Parade, Ibrox or Burnden Park or any other venue where people died at the match. If Heysel was a game involving West Ham, Southampton or Nottingham Forest rather than a local, footballing rival, I doubt this thread would be so busy if started at all.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

As would I. To suggest that people aren't being spiteful by comparing the two is fanciful to say the least though.

Heysel was a disgrace, no doubt about it. I don't see many threads started to pay tribute to those who perished at Valley Parade, Ibrox or Burnden Park or any other venue where people died at the match. If Heysel was a game involving West Ham, Southampton or Nottingham Forest rather than a local, footballing rival, I doubt this thread would be so busy if started at all.

I have to disagree with you here, kev. @rabby has already distinguished Heysel because of the associated criminal intent to cause harm that led to the deaths, unlike Valley Parade, Ibrox or Burnden Park where the extent of the culpability was, in all likelihood, negligence (although I know there's some debate about Bradford's chairman at the time). That places it in an entirely different category, which should be reflected in the mood music coming from Liverpool.

There may be some truth in the criticism being more barbed towards Liverpool than it would be towards Forest, for example, but that is in no small part down to the dichotomy between Liverpool's predilection for pontificating about history and their conspicuous reticence on this particular subject.

 

[Cellarite]

I have to disagree with you here, kev. @rabby has already distinguished Heysel because of the associated criminal intent to cause harm that led to the deaths, unlike Valley Parade, Ibrox or Burnden Park where the extent of the culpability was, in all likelihood, negligence (although I know there's some debate about Bradford's chairman at the time). That places it in an entirely different category, which should be reflected in the mood music coming from Liverpool.

There may be some truth in the criticism being more barbed towards Liverpool than it would be towards Forest, for example, but that is in no small part down to the dichotomy between Liverpool's predilection for pontificating about history and their reticence on this particular subject.

I see what you mean but can't escape the feeling that the thread and it's response would be less or there at all if it weren't Liverpool.

Do not get me wrong on this. I am not exonerating Liverpool as a fan base, a football club or a city on this but there seems to be a definite correlation between them campaigning for justice for Hillsborough and people point scoring over Heysel. All I am saying is that the families of the 96 shouldn't be dragged into the mock outrage over Heysel. There were deaths in Belgium and that's horrific but people were convicted. I fear some people would be shitting bricks if every unpunished instance of football violence from the '80's was re-investigated in the name of justice.

My only point is that this is borne of rivalry rather than a true yearning for justice.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I see what you mean but can't escape the feeling that the thread and it's response would be less or there at all if it weren't Liverpool.

Do not get me wrong on this. I am not exonerating Liverpool as a fan base, a football club or a city on this but there seems to be a definite correlation between them campaigning for justice for Hillsborough and people point scoring over Heysel. All I am saying is that the families of the 96 shouldn't be dragged into the mock outrage over Heysel. There were deaths in Belgium and that's horrific but people were convicted. I fear some people would be shitting bricks if every unpunished instance of football violence from the '80's was re-investigated in the name of justice.

My only point is that this is borne of rivalry rather than a true yearning for justice.

It most certainly isn't from my point of view. I can't speak for others, obviously.

 

[rabby]

As would I. To suggest that people aren't being spiteful by comparing the two is fanciful to say the least though.

Heysel was a disgrace, no doubt about it. I don't see many threads started to pay tribute to those who perished at Valley Parade, Ibrox or Burnden Park or any other venue where people died at the match. If Heysel was a game involving West Ham, Southampton or Nottingham Forest rather than a local, footballing rival, I doubt this thread would be so busy if started at all.

Probably true although I think the spiteful comments are just people courting controversy.

 

[Cellarite]

It most certainly isn't from my point of view. I can't speak for others, obviously.

I see that from your friendship with scousers that you've mentioned. I struggle to decide whether I want Liverpool or United to lose more but have friends who support both.

I guess that's where my search to understand both tragedies comes from. My mate John was neither fighting in Belgium nor drunk in Sheffield.

When page 1 of a thread has a post saying simply JFT39, you question what the poster wants and it appears that they don't realise that people were convicted over Heysel, it gives the impression that some blues are acting up because a rival is involved.

I understand that some City fans see the bigger picture regardless of rivalry. Prestwich Norris has led the way on all things Hillsborough on this forum and clearly know his onions on the subject as he does on most.

I know not you but I would bet my family home that you can see what I mean with regards to some on here reacting as they have because of hatred and the JFT96 campaign.