Record against "The 5" Post-Takeover

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PannickAtTheDisco

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Think it's well known we've perhaps underachieved against our 5 big rivals in the league over the years, and heading into tomorrow thought I'd take a look at the stats.

Overall record since the takeover
Pld: 86, W: 32, D: 19, L: 35, GS: 135, GC: 121, GD: +14, Pts: 115/258, Win %: 37.2

At home:
Pld: 43, W: 22, D: 17, L: 14, GS: 77, GC: 54, GD: +23, Pts: 73/129, Win %: 51.2.

Away:
Pld: 43, W: 10, D: 12, L: 21, GS: 58, GC: 67, GD: -9, Pts: 42/129, Win %: 23.3.

vs Chelsea
Total - Pld: 17, W: 7, D: 3, L: 7, GS: 24, GC: 21, GD: +3, Pts: 24/51.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 1, L: 3, GS: 14, GC: 11, GD: +3. Pts: 16/27.
Away - Pld: 8: W: 2, D: 2, L: 4, GS: 10, GC: 10, GD: 0, Pts: 8/24.

vs Liverpool
Total - Pld: 17, W: 4, D: 6, L: 7, GS: 25, GC: 29, GD: -4, Pts: 18/51.
Home - Pld: 8, W: 4, D: 2, L: 2, GS: 16, GC: 11, GD: +5, Pts: 14/24.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 0, D: 4, L: 5, GS: 9, GC: 18, GD: -9, Pts: 4/27.

vs Tottenham
Total - Pld: 18, W: 8, D: 2, L:8, GS: 34, GC: 27, GD: +7, Pts: 26/54.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 1, L: 3, GS: 20, GC: 11, GD: +9, Pts: 16/27.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 3, D: 1, L: 5, GS: 14, GC: 16, GD: -2, Pts: 10/27.

vs Arsenal
Total - Pld: 17, W: 6, D: 6, L: 5, GS: 25, GC: 22, GD: +3, Pts: 24/51.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 2, L: 2, GS: 19, GC: 14, GD: +5, Pts: 17/27.
Away - Pld: 8, W: 1, D: 4, L: 3, GS: 6, GC: 8, GD: -2, Pts: 7/24.

vs Rags
Total - Pld: 17, W: 7, D: 2, L: 8, GS: 27, GC: 22, GD: +5, Pts: 23/51.
Home - Pld: 8, W: 3, D: 1, L: 4, GS: 8, GC: 7, GD: +1, Pts: 10/24.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 4, D: 1, L: 4, GS: 19, GC: 15, GD: +4, Pts: 13/27.

For me our record is pretty poor, I know it includes the first few seasons of the takeover when we weren't on a part, but the past couple of seasons have been poor in games that matter. When you want to be an elite club I think the win percentage has to be higher, I think even at home we lose too many games as seen particularly last season, and away we really struggle against the lot.

Pep clearly has a big job on to turn that around, it's a malaise really. Doesn't fill me with confidence for tomorrow or our trips to London.

Big game City seemed to be about 2011/12 but hasn't really hung around, maybe a new spine without the baggage can inspire something, maybe it's all going to be down to Pep, but we've been up to our usual tricks so far this season and we have a big run now and I'd love to see something different to the norm.
 
have you copied and pasted that from somewhere our actually gone through stats and done it yourself ?
 
What annoys me is how often we dominate these teams only to still lose or draw. Versus Spurs, we dominated possession and chances, only for them to score with their only two shots on target (and largely thanks to some dodgy refereeing). Against Liverpool, we dominated possession and chances, only for them to score with their only shot on target. Against Chelsea, we dominated possession and chances, only for them to score 3 out of their 4 shots on target. Hell, even at the end of last season, a 2-2 draw against Arsenal in which we had 14 shots to 5 and 57% possession. When we lost to Spurs away, they clearly deserved that, but even then, we had only one fewer chance than them (and one fewer on target) and 58% possession. But you rarely see us turning a poor performance like that into a win in the same way others so frequently seem to do against us.
 
Story of my city supporting life! In my mind dominating these teams is the next and possibly hardest step.
Do we have the mindset at the club? Are we prepared to get down and dirty to achieve this or will the authorities even allow this? To win titles and games against these big clubs there has to be a small amount of bullying and niggling on the pitch, we don't have the players for it/the players don't have the will to get in opposition faces...plus we'd never get through a game with more than nine men the way the FA and their minion referees treat us.
 
No escaping that 14/15 and 15/16 were poor years against Big 6 teams. For those 2 years combined we would be 4th from the 6 teams with Arsenal and Spurs below us. We only had 6 wins from 20 games so a win rate of 30%. But Liverpool and Chelsea who were 3rd and 2nd also only had a win rate of 30%. Top of the table United under LVG (yes, seriously) with 10 wins from their 20 games.

The jury is still out on this season 16/17 with 4 Big 6 games to go...

Despite the relatively poor 14/15 and 15/16 the picture looks completely different if the starting point was 11/12 when we first really became established as a top side. Here is the table for 11/12 to 16/17 ( so nearly 6 seasons) and City are 2nd just behind Chelsea with 2 games in hand and would be top based on points per game:

i1cpog.jpg
 
Shirley said:
Throw Everton into the mix and it must get worse!
Click to expand...

Lets stick Stoke in and Sunderland as well.

How the fuck we won 2 league titles i will never know.

Doomed i tell you, we are doomed!
 
BJL_City said:
Think it's well known we've perhaps underachieved against our 5 big rivals in the league over the years, and heading into tomorrow thought I'd take a look at the stats.

Overall record since the takeover
Pld: 86, W: 32, D: 19, L: 35, GS: 135, GC: 121, GD: +14, Pts: 115/258, Win %: 37.2

At home:
Pld: 43, W: 22, D: 17, L: 14, GS: 77, GC: 54, GD: +23, Pts: 73/129, Win %: 51.2.

Away:
Pld: 43, W: 10, D: 12, L: 21, GS: 58, GC: 67, GD: -9, Pts: 42/129, Win %: 23.3.

vs Chelsea
Total - Pld: 17, W: 7, D: 3, L: 7, GS: 24, GC: 21, GD: +3, Pts: 24/51.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 1, L: 3, GS: 14, GC: 11, GD: +3. Pts: 16/27.
Away - Pld: 8: W: 2, D: 2, L: 4, GS: 10, GC: 10, GD: 0, Pts: 8/24.

vs Liverpool
Total - Pld: 17, W: 4, D: 6, L: 7, GS: 25, GC: 29, GD: -4, Pts: 18/51.
Home - Pld: 8, W: 4, D: 2, L: 2, GS: 16, GC: 11, GD: +5, Pts: 14/24.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 0, D: 4, L: 5, GS: 9, GC: 18, GD: -9, Pts: 4/27.

vs Tottenham
Total - Pld: 18, W: 8, D: 2, L:8, GS: 34, GC: 27, GD: +7, Pts: 26/54.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 1, L: 3, GS: 20, GC: 11, GD: +9, Pts: 16/27.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 3, D: 1, L: 5, GS: 14, GC: 16, GD: -2, Pts: 10/27.

vs Arsenal
Total - Pld: 17, W: 6, D: 6, L: 5, GS: 25, GC: 22, GD: +3, Pts: 24/51.
Home - Pld: 9, W: 5, D: 2, L: 2, GS: 19, GC: 14, GD: +5, Pts: 17/27.
Away - Pld: 8, W: 1, D: 4, L: 3, GS: 6, GC: 8, GD: -2, Pts: 7/24.

vs Rags
Total - Pld: 17, W: 7, D: 2, L: 8, GS: 27, GC: 22, GD: +5, Pts: 23/51.
Home - Pld: 8, W: 3, D: 1, L: 4, GS: 8, GC: 7, GD: +1, Pts: 10/24.
Away - Pld: 9, W: 4, D: 1, L: 4, GS: 19, GC: 15, GD: +4, Pts: 13/27.

For me our record is pretty poor, I know it includes the first few seasons of the takeover when we weren't on a part, but the past couple of seasons have been poor in games that matter. When you want to be an elite club I think the win percentage has to be higher, I think even at home we lose too many games as seen particularly last season, and away we really struggle against the lot.

Pep clearly has a big job on to turn that around, it's a malaise really. Doesn't fill me with confidence for tomorrow or our trips to London.

Big game City seemed to be about 2011/12 but hasn't really hung around, maybe a new spine without the baggage can inspire something, maybe it's all going to be down to Pep, but we've been up to our usual tricks so far this season and we have a big run now and I'd love to see something different to the norm.
Click to expand...
I honestly think it's the age of the players. Marrying experience up with the confidence to perform in the big games and the quality and fitness to do it, you have to have more players in their prime years than not.

We don't have this. We are too old or too young in too many areas. 6 players in our entire squad are aged 25-29, five years ago that number was 14. Any squad who wants to succeed must have more players in their prime years. It's that simple.

Tactics, the weather, the ref, a fluke goal by the opposition, they scored from their only shots on target, blah blah blah. We need more players in their prime years.
 
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