Shay Facey

[CityStu]

Just to play devils advocate, when you look at the number of players who cut there teeth in Spains Second Division. The amount of stars from Brazil and Argentina, then compare with the premier leagues perhaps its as much about where you are, and what you learn from your team as it is the opposition you face. This Sink or Swim mentality has killed many a fine young talent in the PL, lesser opposition can be more beneficial because it gives you time to learn.

Edit: Because we essentially are NYCFC you can guarantee the facilities, coaches and staff are of the highest quality, and the team plays the attacking football we want

I agree with a lot of that, especially the last point. It's incredibly useful having a professional outfit to send players to where we know they'll be used how we want them to be used.

However, there has to be a balance between a lower pressure environment where a youngster can achieve personal success and an environment where a player can develop because they are being tested against players who are in some way better than them (given the quality of players we're producing, that disadvantage will usually be physical presence). On the basis of last night, I think that the youngsters we'd like to see blooded in a professional environment would absolutely stroll the MLS. Take Barker for example: Velásquez last night looked a handy player - competent in possession, happy to take a player on and difficult to knock off the ball - but he was completely headless, starting a dribble and ending up wherever he'd happened to run to. Barker has all of those skills, and then some, and is a much more direct threat.

I'm just struggling to see the types of player we'd be sending there. If the youngsters are showing real promise, like Lopes and Denayer, then they've shown they can hack loans to decent European clubs and hopefully come back and be of use to City. That then leaves the much younger players, that I'd rather were left in the excellent new academy, and the (sorry to say it) last chance saloon players like Facey who would have had that good loan move or opportunity in the first team if they really were good enough. Shouldn't we simply cut our losses on the last group rather than loan them to a sister club?

But surely we ain't losing anything by giving the lad an opportunity in New York. We have seen how it's easy to give up on youngsters too early and regret it later. It's more than likely that Facey won't make it at City but it can't do any harm seeing how he does in front of large crowds and a television audience.

I don't see what we're gaining though. My issue isn't even with Facey - I hope he does well in America and manages to forge a career in what is an exceptionally tough field. My issue is how NYCFC can benefit City and I'm not sure it currently does in any way.

I do think the MLS is still in huge growth though and getting in before it gets really big is a good idea. The potential for long term benefits, be that taking on players from a New York academy or having a good professional club playing the City way against decent opposition, is there. I just don't expect too much to come from it in the next few years, or maybe longer. I hadn't anticipated quite how large the gap in quality was.

 

[Neville Kneville]

We will have far too many players coming through the academy, to accurately assess them all. Some may leave when really they should have been kept.

This is another way to help in minimising the number of mistakes.

We have at least one, possibly two better kids in every position Facey plays. So there is an opportunity to send him away, without losing him. It helps NYC, we still have him available & can see if he progresses or not. Maybe he will sign there permanently in the future but even then, the door would be open for a return if he appeared to be good enough.

If we have 4 or so kids who are not quite good enough, but we don't want to lose them, & they help NYC, we all gain.

 

[Damocles]

That's a good post Nev. New York can sort of be used as a halfway house where we're pretty sure that they aren't going to stay but we want our staff to have a closer look at them beforehand in a first team context without compromising us and sticking them in ours.

Benefits NYCFC as the players we'll want to do this with are of the standard that will fit into their league.

 

[CityStu]

We will have far too many players coming through the academy, to accurately assess them all. Some may leave when really they should have been kept.

This is another way to help in minimising the number of mistakes.

We have at least one, possibly two better kids in every position Facey plays. So there is an opportunity to send him away, without losing him. It helps NYC, we still have him available & can see if he progresses or not. Maybe he will sign there permanently in the future but even then, the door would be open for a return if he appeared to be good enough.

If we have 4 or so kids who are not quite good enough, but we don't want to lose them, & they help NYC, we all gain.

Is the standard of the MLS really one where a judgement can be made on whether a player is good enough for us? Brek Shea was a big MLS talent and he flopped in England in a big way.

My opinion is that, at its current standard, the players we will be sending to New York are those that are likely to have a career at MLS level without hitting the big leagues. Facey probably fits that profile.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

We will have far too many players coming through the academy, to accurately assess them all. Some may leave when really they should have been kept.

This is another way to help in minimising the number of mistakes.

We have at least one, possibly two better kids in every position Facey plays. So there is an opportunity to send him away, without losing him. It helps NYC, we still have him available & can see if he progresses or not. Maybe he will sign there permanently in the future but even then, the door would be open for a return if he appeared to be good enough.

If we have 4 or so kids who are not quite good enough, but we don't want to lose them, & they help NYC, we all gain.

Is the standard of the MLS really one where a judgement can be made on whether a player is good enough for us? Brek Shea was a big MLS talent and he flopped in England in a big way.

My opinion is that, at its current standard, the players we will be sending to New York are those that are likely to have a career at MLS level without hitting the big leagues. Facey probably fits that profile.

The fact Bradley Wright Phillips was the MLS top scorer (signed from Plymouth??) and Robbie Keane (way past it in terms of the Premier League) was ''Most Valuable Player'' last season tells an obvious story..... having watched many Revs games over the 4 years I have been here, it is OK to watch but the standard of a lot of teams is probably between Division 3 and 4.

 

[SlimShadyRus]

He hasn't shown too much for the EDS and has played 20 minutes for New York

Think you're getting a bit carried away.

Probably it's a bit too much saying he may be better than Demichelis for us (only because he's 179 cm), but I believe he can become a good player and have a good career, Demichelis can't pass forward, he's slow and sometimes makes strange, wrong decisions. Facey was impressive in friendlies and he was nominated (or won) EDS player of the year. Don't know why does Kreis put wingerts and williams into the squad, they're bad and CB is not their position. Facey would fit as a CB.

Ok now you've lost me?

That's only because your nicknake is similar with Martin's surname

 

[SuperBlu]

Whats better for his development ? to play with the EDS or New York City ?

 

[without a dream]

We will have far too many players coming through the academy, to accurately assess them all. Some may leave when really they should have been kept.

This is another way to help in minimising the number of mistakes.

We have at least one, possibly two better kids in every position Facey plays. So there is an opportunity to send him away, without losing him. It helps NYC, we still have him available & can see if he progresses or not. Maybe he will sign there permanently in the future but even then, the door would be open for a return if he appeared to be good enough.

If we have 4 or so kids who are not quite good enough, but we don't want to lose them, & they help NYC, we all gain.

If they have a successful first team loan behind them they're more likely to attract a decent fee too. I think there's plenty of championship teams that have a bit of cash that would take a gamble on a City trained player who's shown they're capable of playing mens football.

 

[CityStu]

Whats better for his development ? to play with the EDS or New York City ?

For Shay? Probably New York IMO but that's simply because he's unlikely to make it with City (if he was, he'd have had better loan deals by his age).

My qualm is with other youngsters. I genuinely think that tournaments like the UEFA Youth League (U19) and even the domestic U21 league offer sterner tests than the MLS currently. I can't envisage any player under 19 getting more out of NYCFC than they would the EDS and I'm not sure we should be interested in the players not getting decent European loan moves by the time they're over 18 (like Rekik, Lopes and Denayer have).

 

[WNRH]

Whats better for his development ? to play with the EDS or New York City ?

For Shay? Probably New York IMO but that's simply because he's unlikely to make it with City (if he was, he'd have had better loan deals by his age).

My qualm is with other youngsters. I genuinely think that tournaments like the UEFA Youth League (U19) and even the domestic U21 league offer sterner tests than the MLS currently. I can't envisage any player under 19 getting more out of NYCFC than they would the EDS and I'm not sure we should be interested in the players not getting decent European loan moves by the time they're over 18 (like Rekik, Lopes and Denayer have).

Playing in front of 63k with David Villa and Kaka on a Sunday evening which is televised globally is more beneficial than playing in front of 200 people at the CFA on a Monday night.

Even playing in front of 20,000 in the MLS is better than playing infront of 2000 in the EDS.

Forget the standard, it's the experience that is needed.