Smacking to be outlawed in Scotland

[slicky202]

So if your child hits you are you now obliged to report that to the police also? Beating the shit out of kids is a crime already and this law won't deter the real child abusers one bit. What's the point?

 

[jay_mcfc]

My line in the sand and always has been is a gentle smack on the bottom through clothing to shock and not hurt.

Is smacking a child on the head acceptable? No it isnt its abuse and its assault.

Is leathering a child with a belt or other implement ok? No it isnt, see above.

Are those two examples i've given acceptable if seen in public? No and would it be right to contact the police and possibly social services about it? Yes.

The issue here is lumping anything and everything under the one blanket and demonising millions of loving parents who do believe in and use a smacked bum now and then with the vast minority who go too far and who should be punished.

Its also practically unenforceable so as a piece of legislation it will do nothing imo to alter behaviour or protect any child that is being seriously abused.

Go after the bullies and abusers and i fully support that but parents dont need or want the government telling them how to look after or discipline their kids imo.

You're a walking contradiction. You say that the new Scottish laws will be impossible to police but your way is far harder. I tell you what, I'll draw the line for you....don't use violence against defenceless kids. How does that suit you?

I have a question for the smackers and the smacker defenders; What exactly is it you're trying to achieve by smacking kids in the short and long term? If you want to ignore all the studies and research out there then surely you will at least accept that kids at whatever age are like sponges cognitively and emotionally as they start their developments to becoming socially acceptable adults. I mean, mot people stop swearing around kids once they reach 1 year old so that child doesn't repeat a word and embarrass the parent in public, so why do you think it's ok to to hit them knowing the way their brains work? Using violence to get what you want is one of the worst things you can do to 'teach' kids.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Of course it is exaggerated, do you think the 12 pints of stella guy is roaring in from the pub and tapping his wife on the wrist, he has probably started his swing from the street and landed with enough force to give a boxer a wobble, do you really compare that to Mrs Smith tapping little Suzie Smith on the hand has she has reached towards the hot kitchen stove or whatever, seriously man.

Seriously, man, stop the strawman arguements. The example you give isn't really the norm and isn't really what the law is trying to protect.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Most of the people saying smacking never did me any harm also seem to think it's ok to smack kids.

This is a really important point. I grew up in a quite a violent household although I was a well behaved kid so I escaped most of the worst of it. My brother was a complete pain in the arse and received regular hidings. Did it help or stop him? No. And now he's grown up to be violent, aggressive and in and out of prison. I am totally the opposite in general. I decided by about the age of 13 that if I ever had kids I would never use force to discipline them because even at that age I could see how utterly pointless it was and how it can cause a terrible atmosphere in the family home.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

This is a really important point. I grew up in a quite a violent household although I was a well behaved kid so I escaped most of the worst of it. My brother was a complete pain in the arse and received regular hidings. Did it help or stop him? No. And now he's grown up to be violent, aggressive and in and out of prison. I am totally the opposite in general. I decided by about the age of 13 that if I ever had kids I would never use force to discipline them because even at that age I could see how utterly pointless it was and how it can cause a terrible atmosphere in the family home.

I understand your points, and respect them. However, you say your brother was a complete pain in the arse and was beaten for it,
he is violent and aggressive and is back and to from the nick. My question is though, why have you equated his punishment beatings
to his subsequent behaviour? If by nature, he is as you say, then I'd suggest that he would almost certainly end up the way he has,
whether he was smacked or not. Some people are totally irredeemable, they will commit crimes whatever the laid down punishment
for those crimes are, but the threat of certain kinds of punishment can and does influence the majority. I was given the cane at school
(for playing poker behind bushes no less!), and fuck me, it stopped me doing it again.
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but criminalising countless loving, caring parents for a tap on the arse through clothing
doesn't seem proportionate to me, our parliament rejected a similar sanction, rightly so IMO.

 

[Magicpole]

You're a walking contradiction. You say that the new Scottish laws will be impossible to police but your way is far harder. I tell you what, I'll draw the line for you....don't use violence against defenceless kids. How does that suit you?

I have a question for the smackers and the smacker defenders; What exactly is it you're trying to achieve by smacking kids in the short and long term? If you want to ignore all the studies and research out there then surely you will at least accept that kids at whatever age are like sponges cognitively and emotionally as they start their developments to becoming socially acceptable adults. I mean, mot people stop swearing around kids once they reach 1 year old so that child doesn't repeat a word and embarrass the parent in public, so why do you think it's ok to to hit them knowing the way their brains work? Using violence to get what you want is one of the worst things you can do to 'teach' kids.

This is so on the fucking money for me too. Well said mate.

 

[bluealf]

Seriously, man, stop the strawman arguements. The example you give isn't really the norm and isn't really what the law is trying to protect.

Go and read the fucking thread before quoting people.

To save you the bother it was in reply to another poster, that said battering your wife was the same as hitting a kid.

So it was the other posters example not my fucking own, so not a strawman argument from me.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I understand your points, and respect them. However, you say your brother was a complete pain in the arse and was beaten for it,
he is violent and aggressive and is back and to from the nick. My question is though, why have you equated his punishment beatings
to his subsequent behaviour? If by nature, he is as you say, then I'd suggest that he would almost certainly end up the way he has,
whether he was smacked or not. Some people are totally irredeemable, they will commit crimes whatever the laid down punishment
for those crimes are, but the threat of certain kinds of punishment can and does influence the majority. I was given the cane at school
(for playing poker behind bushes no less!), and fuck me, it stopped me doing it again.
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but criminalising countless loving, caring parents for a tap on the arse through clothing
doesn't seem proportionate to me, our parliament rejected a similar sanction, rightly so IMO.

I wasn't saying that my brother turned into the person he has because he received hidings. More that the hidings he received never once made an ounce of difference and never once made him behave any better. I was too young to know which came first the hidings or the behaviour nor do I know how my brother would have turned out had my parents never struck any of us. By the time my sister came along 6/7 years after us my parents had softened up and they rarely hit her unless she had done something really bad. She has turned out much more like me.

Regardless, my family is just one example and as has already been pointed out the truth is it's impossible to police under current laws so the line in the sand should be pretty simple to me. And until one defender of smacking can give me even a reasonable arguement as to why they do it and what they hope to achieve in the short and long term with the develpoment of their child then I will stick to my guns.

FWIW If I remember correctly you're an older gentleman and maybe your parents grew up in the 30's or 40's and brought you up in the 50's and 60's. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if it's right then I don't mind you having different views and experiences but in the 21st century I find it barbaric.

 

[jazzy]

If you need to resort to violence to stop a child being naughty you shouldn't be a parent

 

[fulabeer]

"The naughty step" has now been found to cause damaging PTSD later in life. Parents who use this method may be charged later on with psychological abuse/cruelty and causing prolonged stress to their children...