Squad shape/formations

Discussion in 'Bluemoon forum' started by WallyA, 30 May 2017.

  1. markbmcfc

    markbmcfc

    Joined:
    6 Dec 2007
    Location:
    Probably should be working...
    People seem to forget oppositions will analyse any formation we use and look at how to exploit it. That's the job of their manager. There isn't a formation that cannot be exploited or leaves us weaker in certain aspects. The trick is to become better at managing the threat. People on here also see a bad individual performance meaning a change in shape is needed because a player is out of position.

    It was clear last night Everton's method of exploiting us was in the channels, mainly on our left between Sane and Otamendi. Just because it's a weakness, doesn't mean you abandon the formation. You just become better at it. Pep tried mid game by swapping Otamendi and Kompany but the goal came through that side anyway with Kompany there.

    At home, with such domination, 3-5-2 is good for us. LWB/RWB are basically wingers and could be the fullbacks or Sane/Sterling, we have options for how the game is going. 442 or 433 with a midfield three of Silva, Silva & KDB would be a complete nightmare and you'd have to play inverted fullbacks to come into the middle for the counter. Then you lose their attacking threat. A back three gives us enough protection through the middle and wide for the counter and allows us to use the WB's as wingers.

    There is an argument in some games to sacrifice Fernandinho if we had a back three, and ask Stones to drop into those positions, but it all depends on the circumstances of the game. Everton had the ability to move the ball from their No 10 position so we needed Ferna in there. Other teams won't have that and so Stones can do that job and drop back into the three when defending. That allows us to play Kdb, Silva and Silva and two strikers which I think we need unless we get another more clinical forward.

    I don't see how you get Sane, Sterling, Silva, Silva, KDB, Jesus, Aguero, in a starting XI unless you play 352 and Stones does Ferna's job. I actually think they'd all get in each others way and a more solid team would be the back three, mendy, walker, Silva's, Kdb and the two strikers. There's more than enough creativity and goals in that team but it boils down to execution.

    The key thing for me is Mendy, he solves a lot of the problems we had against Brighton and Everton. Against Brighton, Danilo kept coming inside and gave us no threat, so Pep used Sane last night who had a dire night. He won't always be dire at WB but with Mendy, we have a player in a natural position with ability at both ends of the pitch, at that point we can judge 3-5-2 as a shape but if the strikers don't score, the shape is irrelevant. We create more than enough chances. We need a clinical forward. Jesus is great for link up play but he isnt a natural finisher yet, and Aguero needs 5 chances for every goal.
     
  2. SamBlue

    SamBlue

    Joined:
    11 Mar 2012
    If Dave is 0.1% better finisher, or if Sergio hasn't been suffering from brain-freeze lately, we would not even discuss the formation issues today. If you want Pep to ditch back three, you might reconsidering ditching Pep. It is like asking Tony Soprano to start working for charity.

    Exactly!
     
  3. ahoyle77

    ahoyle77

    Joined:
    29 Mar 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    My problem isn't the formation, its just getting more of our best players on the pitch. We have 3 high level defenders-Walker, Kompany, and Mendy. We have 8 high level attackers/midfield - Aguero, Jesus, Sane, Sterling, KDB, Gundogen, DSilva, BSilva. I don't understand using a formation that allows for 4 of our 8 high level attackers, while using 3 high level players for 5 defensive positions. And this is before potentially adding Sanchez to the attacking mix.
     
  4. madden150

    madden150

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2011
    No I meant Mendy Sane, Walker Sterling as full backs and wingers.
     
  5. madden150

    madden150

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2011
    Would be curious to see this formation at some stage this season.

    Eddie
    Danilo kompany otamendi Mendy
    De Bruyne
    Silva. Silva Sane
    Jesus
    Aguero
     
  6. malg

    malg

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2010
    Location:
    111 this time around
    I'd like to see:

    Ederson
    Mendy. Kompany. Stones/Otamendi. Walker
    Sane. B.Silva. Fernandinho KdB Sterling
    Jesus

    Just for a few games.
     
  7. Harvster

    Harvster

    Joined:
    26 May 2011
    I think with the current squad that the best formation would be 4-1-4-1

    Walker, Kompany, Otter/Stones, Mendy
    Fernandinho/YaYa/Gundogen
    Sterling, Silva/Silva, KDB, Sane
    Serge/Jesus

    The best players suiting a 3-5-2 formation leaves us with too many defensive minded players and only four out and out offensive players. It doesn't play to Kompany's strengths, unless he is the middle of the 3, and definitely leaves Sane out in the cold.

    Stick St Vincent as right centre back in a 4 where he can still look as good as anybody in the world, have Walker and Mendy constantly flying forward as Fern covers, free Sane to create havoc in the opponents half (as opposed to ours!), and as they say in France, le job est un good'un
     
  8. PW

    PW

    Joined:
    21 Aug 2017
    Gender:
    Male
    The biggest frustration for myself and many others is that we seem to see the deficiencies in our squad and think Pep and those holding the purse strings can't. My spin in the current situation is that the players who are available at the moment aren't really a massive improvement on what we already have, hence why we are not getting involved.

    I'll probably be criticised for this thought process, but in terms of available players who would seriously improve our team there are two, and we tried to sign both Mbappe and Sanchez. With regards to centre halves, I really don't think VVD is good enough for where we want to be going and this sudden media obsession with him is ridiculous The player himself seem to be starting to believe his own hype, which I think is a recipe for disaster. He is not even close to the likes of Vinny, Bonnuci or Godin, which realistically is the level we should be looking at. We need to be diligent in the purchase of future centre halves, as We've spent a fortune in recent windows and still seem a little soft centred.

    I'd rather stick than twist at this stage, with the exception of possibly another left back. Keep the Mangler, as I really do think he has all the attributes to be a top defender and with some intense coaching from Pep could still be a very useful player for us. Unfortunately I think he want out as he knows he's not really wanted, with this the reason that we are looking at Evans. The frightening thing is that in this inflated market 30 million is what we will have to pay for what in essence is a back up centre half. I don't think we are been had over, as in the current climate of the transfer market I'd be worth 5 million and I'm 42 years old with an arthritic hip and ankle and not put a pair of boots on for ten years.

    We've had an excellent window, bought well, most positions doubled up with quality and the ability to change shape and formation with the depth of squad also allowing for a strong bench.

    Once everyone settles in we have pace and power at the back, a new keeper and when you add this to our silky passing game I see nothing but good times ahead.
     
  9. ono

    ono

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2008
    Location:
    Bluemoon Official Spanish Correspondent
    The issue of 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 however you want to look at probably won't fix itself when Mendy comes back.

    Firstly I will qualify that statement by saying we will definitely have more balance and in turn just by maintaining width on that side of the pitch, the guys in the middle will have more space and time. However our big problem is two fold. Firstly, Fernandinho, despite being all action and receiving praise from Pep (probably more so for doing a job that he isn't suited to) is a problem as the pivot and as the holder. As the pivot, he's not quick enough at breaking the lines with forward passes. This delay or hesitation is that difference between an attacker receiving the ball on the turn and an attacker receiving the ball heavily marked with his back to goal. As the holder, he also isn't disciplined enough to hold his position and not gamble and winning the types of 50-50's that look great when they come off, but land us in trouble when they don't. Our backline would be more effective if we had a holder who could delay attacks rather than attempt to stop attacks with an interception. This would have an added benefit of us being able to invite teams on to us a little bit as well, which gives us more space if and when they turn the ball over.

    The other issue lies with our backline's options when they have the ball. The wing backs push up and wide, but are heavily marked so their pace is totally negated. Because they have pushed wide, KDB, Silva, Kun and Gabby tend to sit narrower which means their first touch has to be spot on if a ball is played forward. This isn't always the case and when it's not, our play becomes totally fragmented.

    One fix for this issue is for Pep do invert the wingbacks but only when our three centre backs have the ball. They could both act as extra pivots in the centre, and when they invert, two of the remaining four attackers could offer width until we have advanced the ball into the final third...at which point they can revert to their initial position. Pep did this at Bayern to great success. He even did against us iirc. My only worry would lie in Mendy and Walkers ability to receive the ball on the pivot, although if they were 1 of 3 options, they would probably have enough time to pivot without being under too much pressure.

    I tend to feel that good teams will just man mark the one pivot we use (currently dinho) and stop him from breaking the lines and advancing the ball forward into dangerous areas. The width that Walker and even Sane offer as wing backs is totally false width as they are receiving the ball whilst they are stood still almost, with no other option other than to go back to the centre backs.

    Another issue causing our play to appear fragmented lies in the opponents ability to use the channels against us. Clever teams will continue to employ pacey players in the channels in an attempt to get up the pitch. This will mean that they counter with more regularity as they have a fairly simple out ball. We couldn't build enough momentum at times on Monday because Calvert Lewin worked the channels so well so their counter attacks lasted longer than they should...particularly if we gave a foul away out wide. This tended to happen quite a lot and it totally broke the game up and when added to the issues already mentioned, it meant that Silva and KDB both tended to drift out of the game....and once those players drift out, their touch becomes less reliable and their influence less productive.
     
  10. Love_Each_Day

    Love_Each_Day

    Joined:
    21 May 2009
    Could see the 3-5-2 working the rare occasions someone presses us high, Liverpool and Spurs away maybe. Against 10 men sitting behind the ball it's a bit awkward and pointless, can only see more situations of Otamendi and Kompany attempting through passes and shots from outside the box.
     

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