The traditional 'he didn't make it after City, so he was no good' comment.

Discussion in 'EDS and Academy Forum' started by Neville Kneville, 2 Feb 2018.

  1. twosips

    twosips

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    Ha well that's the point. Some think they're being phased out one by one. They feel they're being replaced by yes men and whatever they do is irrelevant. Not all of course but some do feel that way. They're old school technical coaches some of them and like producing for the first team and aren't a fan of the academy loan farm sell for profit culture. Probably a bit dispirited tbh
     
  2. Danamy

    Danamy

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    Good post and I totally agree with your third and fourth points, it drives me mad the amount of times you hear the term "get rid" at grass roots level, no encouragement whatsoever to enjoy the ball and be happy with it at your feet.
     
  3. Neville Kneville

    Neville Kneville

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    You still hear it from Glen Hoddle, during the game last night between Real Madrid & PSG for example.
     
  4. danielwood5

    danielwood5

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    This is an excellent post, a lot this stuff I never realised or even considered.
    I think another thing that affects whether a player gets into any Premiership or even European top division team is that the world is a lot smaller now than it was. It's not that long ago that foreign players were a rarity in the league and the majority of teams were made up of British players. For a youth team player to graduate to the first team they had to be one of the better players in the country whereas nowadays they have to b one of the better players in the world. Straight away this will make it statistically much more difficult for a youth player to break through into the first team of the club they start their apprenticeship at.
     
  5. twosips

    twosips

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    Great post that @Damocles. The point about Gerrard and Xavi is perfect too. As a slight aside, I found the story of Graham Potter, an English manager performing minor miracles over in Sweden, fascinating, primarily because he's been studying emotional intelligence and social sciences... https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-ostersund-human-touch-arsenal-europa-league

    I think it's what makes Pep so untouchable. Not only is his this ridiculous borderline genius level individual, incredibly analytical and aware, but he's also exceptionally emotional and a genuinely great person. He knows how to get through to people on a pure human basis first and foremost.
     
  6. CityStu

    CityStu

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    I agree with you, but Guardiola has been lucky (well, made his own luck) to be afforded time to develop and hone his methods. Very few get that opportunity (especially at big clubs) as it's so results driven and easy to fire managers now. It's interesting to compare to Gracia and Pellegrino who are very similarly aged managers in the PL but have never had more than 2 full seasons at a club. It has to be difficult to employ those holistic strategies when you know it's likely you'll be working with a bunch of new players in 6 months time.

    Potter's been afforded that time because he's taken a small side upwards, similar to Howe and Dyche at Bournemouth and Burnley.
     
  7. twosips

    twosips

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    I don't think there's any luck in it with Pep. It all just falls back to his ability as a manager, and dealing with people is a part of that. I think he's been afforded that time because he's so good with people that he'd get more time with most simply cos of how well he speaks and how well he articulates his ideas, both emotionally and technically. Boards trust him, cos he's just fucking brilliant and he sweeps people off their feet with his ideas. People that intelligent/charismatic can sway people quite easily. I think he's just fundamentally that brilliant that he takes control of his own future. I don't doubt that Pellegrino is a good manager, but I'd be surprised if he is anywhere near as intelligent and as charismatic as Guardiola.
     
  8. CityStu

    CityStu

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    I think Pep is brilliant, but it's hard to argue that he hasn't been given all of the time and resources he needs/requests to implement his methods. As an alternative, look at De Boer at Palace this season. He was given the task of turning an Allardyce team of physical cloggers into a footballing side and was provided with the resources of Sakho and 5 games to make an impact.

    I'm not saying that De Boer is as good as Pep, but I think that if he had different ideas of how to get the best out of his players, it's got to be incredibly difficult to get those ideas to blossom within 5 games, with a squad not cut out to play in the style you want them to.

    Bringing this back to the topic in question, changing first team managers has to have a similar impact on them in terms of how close they are to the first team. At Palace, Allardyce may have preferred a youngster who was very quick, tall or strong who can help to counter quickly, whereas De Boer would probably favour someone who could be relied on to keep possession.

    Everything in the UK (not just football) is so short termist.
     
  9. mccity

    mccity

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    Absolutely, an education on delayed gratification could do wonders for understanding the need for patience.
     
  10. domalino

    domalino

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    Rony Lopes has now scored 10 goals in his last 11 league games.
     

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