Train ticket prices

[BimboBob]

I use the train to go to London, off peak 44 quid return, 50 minute journey, East Midlands. Usually a decent and fast service. Also use the Eurostar for trips to Belgium. Very good service.

Manchester is a pain to get to, drive to MK or go via Sheffield but it's usually off peak so not too crowded.

The trouble with our trains is on peak. Rush hour. We don't have the amount of rolling stock to cope with demand, hence the packed trains, and the price is high so that costs are covered across the board.

There's no way around this unless lots of people changed their work start/ finish times.

I get a seat in off peak because commuters stand for an hour in peak.

This won't change with privatisation. If prices come down then investment, and it's needed all the time, will suffer thus dragging us back to the good ol' days of shit trains, surly staff and cancellations by the bucket load.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I use the train to go to London, off peak 44 quid return, 50 minute journey, East Midlands. Usually a decent and fast service. Also use the Eurostar for trips to Belgium. Very good service.

Manchester is a pain to get to, drive to MK or go via Sheffield but it's usually off peak so not too crowded.

The trouble with our trains is on peak. Rush hour. We don't have the amount of rolling stock to cope with demand, hence the packed trains, and the price is high so that costs are covered across the board.

There's no way around this unless lots of people changed their work start/ finish times.

I get a seat in off peak because commuters stand for an hour in peak.

This won't change with privatisation. If prices come down then investment, and it's needed all the time, will suffer thus dragging us back to the good ol' days of shit trains, surly staff and cancellations by the bucket load.

A sensible post I think. Although presumably you mean it won't change with nationalisation, not privatisation?

When you look at the profits companies like First Group make, they are not unreasonable (2.6% of turnover in their case), so anyone with the "it's the fat cats lining their pockets" mentality is just plain wrong. If they reduced their prices by 3%, they'd be making a loss!

The ticket prices are very high compared to other countries since we have an ageing system that needs much new investment, and the government subsidy is low. There's then a political debate about the extent to which non-travelling tax payers should subsidize travelling tax payers' travel, and to what extent a decent rail network is a requirement of a successful economy.

But that said, I do think the regulator could to more to better balance the prices across the services being offered. Some rural routes with 1/4 full trains (or less) are very very cheap, and definitely the peak time business traveller is being clobbered to compensate.

 

[BELFAST_BLUE_BOY]

The worst and most expensive train and railway service in the developed world - I dont use the train to commute but in last 24 months have used it for work/leisure- my experienes include

1. train booked to edinburgh for family trip as did not wat to drive car - checked national rail and found out part of jouney was changed to 2 hrs on a fucking bus - it was quicker to drive from manchester, so I did.
2. Business trip to London - return same day ticket cost firm £180 - on way back home sitting in half empty train coach was told by a very agressive female conductor I had wrong ticker and had to pay £150 extra??? - after a heated debate and fact I had alread paid almost £200 for the ticket and coach half full she "let me off" - and told me I would probably be stopped at manchester and asked to pay difference - honestly you could not make it up!!
3. Took train from Bolton to Manchester Oxford Road - it was late and overcrowded to extent I was squashed up against window the whole time. I got off at oxford road and felt I needed a shower.....I refused to pay for a ticket on principle - they should pay me FFS - after some "debate" the station master called Police to arrest me - Police came, they gave me a compaint form but I did not pay and called bluff to arrest me in front of the gathered crowd- why do people pay for this shit service?
4. had 2 weeks jury sevice in July - train from Chorley to Preston was 20 mins and best option - after 3 days of late trains and having to wait over hour for return trip I drove for rest of 2 weeks and used park and ride - so much for keeping cars off road.

and dont get me started on why we car share to CITY games even though we all would love to get a train, relax and have a beer in manchester.....the truth is you just cannot rely on trains - costs too much, they are late or cancelled or offer a 2 hr "bus alternative" or simply a case of no train to get home....

even last wedI was on a train home from a seminar in manchester - we get to oxford road .... we stop.....we wait...we wait....30 mins wait and this is because "your train driver is stuck in traffic in a black cab" - you cannot make this shite up......welcome to the train service in the UK 2018 - when I was young we thought they would have flying trains by 2018!

fucking shite -

sunday morning rant

 

[stonerblue]

The worst and most expensive train and railway service in the developed world - I dont use the train to commute but in last 24 months have used it for work/leisure- my experienes include

1. train booked to edinburgh for family trip as did not wat to drive car - checked national rail and found out part of jouney was changed to 2 hrs on a fucking bus - it was quicker to drive from manchester, so I did.
2. Business trip to London - return same day ticket cost firm £180 - on way back home sitting in half empty train coach was told by a very agressive female conductor I had wrong ticker and had to pay £150 extra??? - after a heated debate and fact I had alread paid almost £200 for the ticket and coach half full she "let me off" - and told me I would probably be stopped at manchester and asked to pay difference - honestly you could not make it up!!
3. Took train from Bolton to Manchester Oxford Road - it was late and overcrowded to extent I was squashed up against window the whole time. I got off at oxford road and felt I needed a shower.....I refused to pay for a ticket on principle - they should pay me FFS - after some "debate" the station master called Police to arrest me - Police came, they gave me a compaint form but I did not pay and called bluff to arrest me in front of the gathered crowd- why do people pay for this shit service?
4. had 2 weeks jury sevice in July - train from Chorley to Preston was 20 mins and best option - after 3 days of late trains and having to wait over hour for return trip I drove for rest of 2 weeks and used park and ride - so much for keeping cars off road.

and dont get me started on why we car share to CITY games even though we all would love to get a train, relax and have a beer in manchester.....the truth is you just cannot rely on trains - costs too much, they are late or cancelled or offer a 2 hr "bus alternative" or simply a case of no train to get home....

even last wedI was on a train home from a seminar in manchester - we get to oxford road .... we stop.....we wait...we wait....30 mins wait and this is because "your train driver is stuck in traffic in a black cab" - you cannot make this shite up......welcome to the train service in the UK 2018 - when I was young we thought they would have flying trains by 2018!

fucking shite -

sunday morning rant

Top rant

 

[BimboBob]

A sensible post I think. Although presumably you mean it won't change with nationalisation, not privatisation?

When you look at the profits companies like First Group make, they are not unreasonable (2.6% of turnover in their case), so anyone with the "it's the fat cats lining their pockets" mentality is just plain wrong. If they reduced their prices by 3%, they'd be making a loss!

The ticket prices are very high compared to other countries since we have an ageing system that needs much new investment, and the government subsidy is low. There's then a political debate about the extent to which non-travelling tax payers should subsidize travelling tax payers' travel, and to what extent a decent rail network is a requirement of a successful economy.

But that said, I do think the regulator could to more to better balance the prices across the services being offered. Some rural routes with 1/4 full trains (or less) are very very cheap, and definitely the peak time business traveller is being clobbered to compensate.

Yup, my bad. nationalisation.

Our trouble, and this is the biggie, is that our network is based around something that happened around 200 years ago. The birth of passenger trains. We built lines, stations, junctions, tunnels etc etc at an alarming rate, and with everything we do in this country, not one eye was kept open to the future. Look at the M25. Make it 4/5 lanes they said...no chance said the government of the time, 3 is fine...honest, trust us.

People used the trains to visit the seaside. Daytrips. Specially laid on trains. "To the coast", cried the great unwashed. And to the coast they went. In their hundreds of thousands. A town boomed when the railway turned up. Visitors! At last! My cockle bar will be a success!

Most people worked a cycle ride away. Or a brisk walk. Or caught the bus. A train to work? No need.

This continued right up until after the two great wars and then something happened at similar times...people started to go further for jobs, properly commuting but doing so by the rise of another cheap and affordable transport idea...the car and Lord Beeching.

The rise of the motorway, proper roads, affordable cars and post war prosperity meant that the railways were in decline. Something no one paid much attention to until slightly too late. As usual. It was already heavily subsidised and was still making a loss. So thousands of stations and branch lines went. And still not one fuck was given to the infrastructure.

Now we have a boom in train travel. The new stations/ refits are fantastic. The trains are faster, cleaner and more comfortable than ever before and yet...

They are travelling through 250 year old tunnels. Along 250 year old embankments. Over 250 year old aqueducts. Clunking into stations designed for 1 train an hour to the seaside. So yes, ticket prices are high, it's not going to the companies, as Chippy Boy says, but into the infrastructure. An infrastructure that has been neglected since, well, forever. All governments have been guilty.

My off peak travel is being paid for by the on-peak commuter. Probably the only business model that would work.

 

[Bill]

The worst and most expensive train and railway service in the developed world - I dont use the train to commute but in last 24 months have used it for work/leisure- my experienes include

1. train booked to edinburgh for family trip as did not wat to drive car - checked national rail and found out part of jouney was changed to 2 hrs on a fucking bus - it was quicker to drive from manchester, so I did.
2. Business trip to London - return same day ticket cost firm £180 - on way back home sitting in half empty train coach was told by a very agressive female conductor I had wrong ticker and had to pay £150 extra??? - after a heated debate and fact I had alread paid almost £200 for the ticket and coach half full she "let me off" - and told me I would probably be stopped at manchester and asked to pay difference - honestly you could not make it up!!
3. Took train from Bolton to Manchester Oxford Road - it was late and overcrowded to extent I was squashed up against window the whole time. I got off at oxford road and felt I needed a shower.....I refused to pay for a ticket on principle - they should pay me FFS - after some "debate" the station master called Police to arrest me - Police came, they gave me a compaint form but I did not pay and called bluff to arrest me in front of the gathered crowd- why do people pay for this shit service?
4. had 2 weeks jury sevice in July - train from Chorley to Preston was 20 mins and best option - after 3 days of late trains and having to wait over hour for return trip I drove for rest of 2 weeks and used park and ride - so much for keeping cars off road.

and dont get me started on why we car share to CITY games even though we all would love to get a train, relax and have a beer in manchester.....the truth is you just cannot rely on trains - costs too much, they are late or cancelled or offer a 2 hr "bus alternative" or simply a case of no train to get home....

even last wedI was on a train home from a seminar in manchester - we get to oxford road .... we stop.....we wait...we wait....30 mins wait and this is because "your train driver is stuck in traffic in a black cab" - you cannot make this shite up......welcome to the train service in the UK 2018 - when I was young we thought they would have flying trains by 2018!

fucking shite -

sunday morning rant

Please post your journey to Wembley.

You are a jinx.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yup, my bad. nationalisation.

Our trouble, and this is the biggie, is that our network is based around something that happened around 200 years ago. The birth of passenger trains. We built lines, stations, junctions, tunnels etc etc at an alarming rate, and with everything we do in this country, not one eye was kept open to the future. Look at the M25. Make it 4/5 lanes they said...no chance said the government of the time, 3 is fine...honest, trust us.

People used the trains to visit the seaside. Daytrips. Specially laid on trains. "To the coast", cried the great unwashed. And to the coast they went. In their hundreds of thousands. A town boomed when the railway turned up. Visitors! At last! My cockle bar will be a success!

Most people worked a cycle ride away. Or a brisk walk. Or caught the bus. A train to work? No need.

This continued right up until after the two great wars and then something happened at similar times...people started to go further for jobs, properly commuting but doing so by the rise of another cheap and affordable transport idea...the car and Lord Beeching.

The rise of the motorway, proper roads, affordable cars and post war prosperity meant that the railways were in decline. Something no one paid much attention to until slightly too late. As usual. It was already heavily subsidised and was still making a loss. So thousands of stations and branch lines went. And still not one fuck was given to the infrastructure.

Now we have a boom in train travel. The new stations/ refits are fantastic. The trains are faster, cleaner and more comfortable than ever before and yet...

They are travelling through 250 year old tunnels. Along 250 year old embankments. Over 250 year old aqueducts. Clunking into stations designed for 1 train an hour to the seaside. So yes, ticket prices are high, it's not going to the companies, as Chippy Boy says, but into the infrastructure. An infrastructure that has been neglected since, well, forever. All governments have been guilty.

My off peak travel is being paid for by the on-peak commuter. Probably the only business model that would work.

You should post more! Another spot on post.

 

[Chippy_boy]

2. Business trip to London - return same day ticket cost firm £180 - on way back home sitting in half empty train coach was told by a very agressive female conductor I had wrong ticker and had to pay £150 extra??? - after a heated debate and fact I had alread paid almost £200 for the ticket and coach half full she "let me off" - and told me I would probably be stopped at manchester and asked to pay difference - honestly you could not make it up!!

I'm staggered they let you off.

A few years back, I purchased from the ticket office a first class, off-peak return to London from Bristol for the princely sum of about £200. Unbeknown to me, they gave me a second class, peak ticket. At the time, the two tickets were identical in price, so I did't notice they gave me the wrong ticket.

On the journey up to London. I sat in first class and no ticket inspector came by on the whole outbound journey, so I was none the wiser. However, on my return later that day, I was sitting in first and the ticket inspector checked my ticket and told me I had an invalid ticket. It was mid afternoon, so off-peak time. It's at this point I realised what had happened and that they'd given me the wrong ticket. I explained to the very aggressive inspector, and said that the tickets are the same price and I am on an off peak train. I said, why on earth would I choose to pay £200 for a 2nd class peak ticket when I was travelling outbound and return, both off peak. Clearly the ticket office have made a mistake.

But she was having none of it and insisted I moved to second class. Despite me having paid the right amount of money! I refused point blank and said I am a customer and they are treating me like scum. She said if I didn't move, she'd radio ahead and they'd ask the transport police to board the train at the next stop and have me arrested.

Now, I tell this tale, not just because of how utterly appalling it is, but also as a stark reminder of what utter shite people have to put up with if the vendor has a monopolistic and dominant position in a market, and fuck all respect for customers and customer service. Can you REMOTELY imagine any business in any other sector, treating valued customers like that??? It simply beggars belief. It was THEIR fuck up!

I ended up having to stand up in 2nd class - there were no seats - despite having paid for a 1st class ticket.

 

[BimboBob]

Please post your journey to Wembley.

You are a jinx.

I think he's driving.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I'm staggered they let you off.

A few years back, I purchased from the ticket office a first class, off-peak return to London from Bristol for the princely sum of about £200. Unbeknown to me, they gave me a second class, peak ticket. At the time, the two tickets were identical in price, so I did't notice they gave me the wrong ticket.

On the journey up to London. I sat in first class and no ticket inspector came by on the whole outbound journey, so I was none the wiser. However, on my return later that day, I was sitting in first and the ticket inspector checked my ticket and told me I had an invalid ticket. It was mid afternoon, so off-peak time. It's at this point I realised what had happened and that they'd given me the wrong ticket. I explained to the very aggressive inspector, and said that the tickets are the same price and I am on an off peak train. I said, why on earth would I choose to pay £200 for a 2nd class peak ticket when I was travelling outbound and return, both off peak. Clearly the ticket office have made a mistake.

But she was having none of it and insisted I moved to second class. Despite me having paid the right amount of money! I refused point blank and said I am a customer and they are treating me like scum. She said if I didn't move, she'd radio ahead and they'd ask the transport police to board the train at the next stop and have me arrested.

Now, I tell this tale, not just because of how utterly appalling it is, but also as a stark reminder of what utter shite people have to put up with if the vendor has a monopolistic and dominant position in a market, and fuck all respect for customers and customer service. Can you REMOTELY imagine any business in any other sector, treating valued customers like that??? It simply beggars belief. It was THEIR fuck up!

I ended up having to stand up in 2nd class - there were no seats - despite having paid for a 1st class ticket.

The person in the ticket office made a mistake,however,it was your responsibility to check the ticket you were sold.As you didn't,it was your fuck up and you had no entitlement to be sat in First Class.The Conductor was correct,she was perfectly entitled to require you move to a Standard carriage.

Maybe if you had conversed to her in a less arrogant and self entitled manner,her response,and the outcome,may have been different?

Just a thought....