Train ticket prices

That's a fair (no pun intended) point and a reasonable hypothesis, but is there any evidence for it?

I remember when Orange first set up in the UK and the investment required from Hutchison to get it going, ran into the billions. But they did it, since they saw the business opportunity. They weren't offered a monopoly. Easyjet have invested billions and they don't have a monopoly. There's plenty of examples of businesses having to invest heavily in order to gain market share, increase efficiencies, increase revenues and increase profits. I just don't see the train companies doing it.

But let's say I accept what you say. If that is indeed the case, then the government should subsidise the running of trains. If running trains to the standard and at a cost that we as a nation deem appropriate, is unprofitable, then this does not mean we ought to nationalise it. If nationalising things makes them run better, then OK perhaps, but the very opposite is empirically demonstrated to be true. Remove the financial imperative and service levels decline, costs spiral. It's what the public sector does.


You ....like the Government are not using joined up thinking here.... the Germans and French see encouraging people to use the train system and not using their cars as part of their carbon reduction programme.. we should do the same but can't because we have little control over the system.


Im travelling from Manchester to Leeds today its £21.50 anytime day return so a total of £86 for the four of us .......or should I drive?
 
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60% of our railway is owned by state owned companies in any case, just not our state. Having travelled throughout Europe on trains they are a lot cheaper than ours, run on time, the trains are cleaner and their stations are better equipped.

Because they fund it from taxation at a far higher level. So those who dont use trains subsidise those who do. It's not a magic cure.
 
And that means taking money from elsewhere. It's always about choices. The trains are vastly better than they were 20 years ago.

If you can afford to get on them. Most technology has improved over the past 20 years. Ours has just improved less than our neighbours in France. Germany, Netherlands ext.
 
If you can afford to get on them. Most technology has improved over the past 20 years. Ours has just improved less than our neighbours in France. Germany, Netherlands ext.

So the solution is to get others to pay for it?

Actually ours have improved far more than theirs have. We were coming from a much lower base. I think people forget how dire the trains used to be.
 
So the solution is to get others to pay for it? Yes is necessary. The UK needs to have a cheap, reliable, clean public transport system in order to improve the mobility of the general public, to expand the economy. At least we will be able to spend the extra hundreds of millions the private companies pay in dividends to shareholders.
 
Travel around Stockholm on public transport and you realise how far behind a decent service we are.
 
Gotta go to work shortly but if you could show me where privatisation of essential services has been beneficial for millions of uk citizens it would help me answer your question.
I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Why should the public sector run any services, unless there's a public interest in doing so? If there is a public interest, like the police or army for example, then sure. But if there is not, then why should the state run it? Why would you care?

Selling off state-owned businesses has raised £100bn+ for the exchequer, which in turn has meant every tax payer in the country is paying less tax than they otherwise would have to do, given our current public spending commitments. So it is intrinsically a good idea, with the caveats of public interest.

And FWIW, I remember what the trains were like in state ownership, and it was horrendous previously. The current situation is far from ideal since costs have been allowed to spiral, but returning it to the dogshit it was before, is no solution.
 
So the solution is to get others to pay for it? Yes is necessary. The UK needs to have a cheap, reliable, clean public transport system in order to improve the mobility of the general public, to expand the economy. At least we will be able to spend the extra hundreds of millions the private companies pay in dividends to shareholders.

If you think removing the profit element frees up hundreds of millions you're in a fantasy world. In which publicly run service has there ever been an improvement in efficiency?​
 

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