You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Universal credit
- Thread starter taleofbluehalves
- Start date
A vanity project that halved child poverty. Let's have more of them.Have you read 'The Blunders of our Governments'? It's about government projects and how/why they almost invariably go wrong (regardless of who's in power). The most shocking piece is about tax credits, where HMRC, a department used to collecting money, suddenly had to become a department that paid it out. They cocked up completely and it was mainly because it was a vanity project for Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, who wanted to be seen as a 'giving' minister. One of the problems is that no one would ever disagree with Brown (or any forceful minister, whatever the party) as dissenting voices tend to be removed or sidelined. It really is a case of "Yes Minister" in the Civil Service. And ministers really don't give a shit as they know they generally won't be there to clean up the mess in a few years.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
A vanity project that halved child poverty. Let's have more of them.
PB is right and yes it helped many but it also turned into a nightmare for a lot who suddenly got told they had been overpaid £thousands and got told they had 30 days to pay it back or face it being taken from wages.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
I don't have any problem with the concept of eliminating child poverty or anything designed to do that. But why not let the DWP do it, who at least have some experience in managing benefits?A vanity project that halved child poverty. Let's have more of them.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
Have you read 'The Blunders of our Governments'? It's about government projects and how/why they almost invariably go wrong (regardless of who's in power). The most shocking piece is about tax credits, where HMRC, a department used to collecting money, suddenly had to become a department that paid it out. They cocked up completely and it was mainly because it was a vanity project for Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, who wanted to be seen as a 'giving' minister. One of the problems is that no one would ever disagree with Brown (or any forceful minister, whatever the party) as dissenting voices tend to be removed or sidelined. It really is a case of "Yes Minister" in the Civil Service. And ministers really don't give a shit as they know they generally won't be there to clean up the mess in a few years.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the concept of universal credit but when neo-liberal organs like The Economist start slagging its introduction off then you know something's badly wrong.
Do you think the HMRC losing 2,000,000 peoples NI records had anything to do with that?
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
I've done work for Central Government and they haven't a fucking clue by and large. So I'd say it was that Brown wanted to have direct control of a project that was dear to him. But however laudable the aim he put his personal vanity (or whatever you want to call it) above anything else.Do you think the HMRC losing 2,000,000 peoples NI records had anything to do with that?
Two Gun Bob
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 11,865
And so we find ourselves a few years down the track with respect to the this new umbrella benefit that's caused the biggest shake up to the system in a generation. Hard to argue that it hasn't been controversial with critics espousing that the systems monthly payments cause hardship and push people into poverty but it looks like there can be no turning back and full steam ahead it is through the transitional period and into a fully fledged operational but still however in need of a massive tweak. In some ways the benefit has the ability to eliminate red tape and bureaucracy by simplifying and uniting the different benefits into one but at what cost. Nice to see from inception that our government back tracked on the premium call centre charges and more assistance I believe has been offered to claimants to negate the 5 week assessment period with the offering of transitional loans that can be repaid over the year from their benefits although this in itself creates a catch 22 situation does it not? ..
It's also good to know that the benefit helps those that are working too, however their Universal Credit will reduce gradually as they earn more and I believe the calculi to be 63% reduction of benefits for every pound earned so always better in work if only marginally. If self-employed payments may be affected by how much the DWP expect you to earn each month anfd this expected amount is called your minimum income floor and I guess implemented to weed out Pinocchio Incomes falling below the minimum wage. Business start ups are protected from the minimum floor however by offering a 12 month period of grace from expected higher overheads encountered in the beginning of a start up. Also very good to see a lot of help implemented for our disabled folk with extra additional allowances of £330 monthly for lcwra even though they took away the lcw allowance which was criminal on every front. Also an additional allowance of £290 monthly allowing a disabled wage earner to keep more of their salary before the reductions of 63% get applied to net earnings so not all doom and gloom there then.
Anyway the reason I bumped the thread was because last night we watched part two of an interesting series called Universal Credit: Inside The Welfare State offering the viewer unprecedented access into the realms of the Department for Work and Pensions. It's on in three parts on BBC2 and available on catch up if you have a TV License following the people designing the new benefit system and the the staff in Jobcentres and the claimants who are living on Universal Credit and the trials and tribulations they all face. Last night episode followed the staff and claimants at Toxteth job centre in liverpool where 45,000 people are already living on Universal Credit. The Job centre is the busiest in the city and manager Gema is under pressure to ensure her staff meet most new claimants every week until they get a job ..but with too few staff and too many claimants it is all just proving to be a bridge too far.
Having recently been made redundant 62 year old Sue struggled with the new system. She had to look for work for 35 hours a week and regularly attend meetings at the Job centre and if not then her benefits could be reduced by a process called a sanction. I actually believe increasing working age for the ladies and olden folk was a wayward decision and watching poor Suesans plight last night who was clearly a grafter albeit a visually and extremely tired grafter, fought on bravely to garnish a multitude of cleaning jobs that would take her out of the U.C. In my opinion she should now be retired and this current work till you drop ethos has to stop. Probably grafted and paid into the system all her working life so it's not a lot to ask that the powers that be remove the old dears saddle allowing her some time for a roll in the hay and garnish a little sunlight on her locks. Again a interesting watch and it's on in thee parts available to catch up. That is all:
It's also good to know that the benefit helps those that are working too, however their Universal Credit will reduce gradually as they earn more and I believe the calculi to be 63% reduction of benefits for every pound earned so always better in work if only marginally. If self-employed payments may be affected by how much the DWP expect you to earn each month anfd this expected amount is called your minimum income floor and I guess implemented to weed out Pinocchio Incomes falling below the minimum wage. Business start ups are protected from the minimum floor however by offering a 12 month period of grace from expected higher overheads encountered in the beginning of a start up. Also very good to see a lot of help implemented for our disabled folk with extra additional allowances of £330 monthly for lcwra even though they took away the lcw allowance which was criminal on every front. Also an additional allowance of £290 monthly allowing a disabled wage earner to keep more of their salary before the reductions of 63% get applied to net earnings so not all doom and gloom there then.
Anyway the reason I bumped the thread was because last night we watched part two of an interesting series called Universal Credit: Inside The Welfare State offering the viewer unprecedented access into the realms of the Department for Work and Pensions. It's on in three parts on BBC2 and available on catch up if you have a TV License following the people designing the new benefit system and the the staff in Jobcentres and the claimants who are living on Universal Credit and the trials and tribulations they all face. Last night episode followed the staff and claimants at Toxteth job centre in liverpool where 45,000 people are already living on Universal Credit. The Job centre is the busiest in the city and manager Gema is under pressure to ensure her staff meet most new claimants every week until they get a job ..but with too few staff and too many claimants it is all just proving to be a bridge too far.
Having recently been made redundant 62 year old Sue struggled with the new system. She had to look for work for 35 hours a week and regularly attend meetings at the Job centre and if not then her benefits could be reduced by a process called a sanction. I actually believe increasing working age for the ladies and olden folk was a wayward decision and watching poor Suesans plight last night who was clearly a grafter albeit a visually and extremely tired grafter, fought on bravely to garnish a multitude of cleaning jobs that would take her out of the U.C. In my opinion she should now be retired and this current work till you drop ethos has to stop. Probably grafted and paid into the system all her working life so it's not a lot to ask that the powers that be remove the old dears saddle allowing her some time for a roll in the hay and garnish a little sunlight on her locks. Again a interesting watch and it's on in thee parts available to catch up. That is all:
sir baconface
Well-Known Member
Governments have an infinite capacity to fcuk up projects.
If anyone thinks a different party would come in and be super-administrators, I suggest they think again.
It’s a great shame, though, that people on relatively low incomes are kept waiting. Cash flow is king in most households.
If anyone thinks a different party would come in and be super-administrators, I suggest they think again.
It’s a great shame, though, that people on relatively low incomes are kept waiting. Cash flow is king in most households.
Last edited:
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
One of your best posts TwoGun.And so we find ourselves a few years down the track with respect to the this new umbrella benefit that's caused the biggest shake up to the system in a generation. Hard to argue that it hasn't been controversial with critics espousing that the systems monthly payments cause hardship and push people into poverty but it looks like there can be no turning back and full steam ahead it is through the transitional period and into a fully fledged operational but still however in need of a massive tweak. In some ways the benefit has the ability to eliminate red tape and bureaucracy by simplifying and uniting the different benefits into one but at what cost. Nice to see from inception that our government back tracked on the premium call centre charges and more assistance I believe has been offered to claimants to negate the 5 week assessment period with the offering of transitional loans that can be repaid over the year from their benefits although this in itself creates a catch 22 situation does it not? ..
It's also good to know that the benefit helps those that are working too, however their Universal Credit will reduce gradually as they earn more and I believe the calculi to be 63% reduction of benefits for every pound earned so always better in work if only marginally. If self-employed payments may be affected by how much the DWP expect you to earn each month anfd this expected amount is called your minimum income floor and I guess implemented to weed out Pinocchio Incomes falling below the minimum wage. Business start ups are protected from the minimum floor however by offering a 12 month period of grace from expected higher overheads encountered in the beginning of a start up. Also very good to see a lot of help implemented for our disabled folk with extra additional allowances of £330 monthly for lcwra even though they took away the lcw allowance which was criminal on every front. Also an additional allowance of £290 monthly allowing a disabled wage earner to keep more of their salary before the reductions of 63% get applied to net earnings so not all doom and gloom there then.
Anyway the reason I bumped the thread was because last night we watched part two of an interesting series called Universal Credit: Inside The Welfare State offering the viewer unprecedented access into the realms of the Department for Work and Pensions. It's on in three parts on BBC2 and available on catch up if you have a TV License following the people designing the new benefit system and the the staff in Jobcentres and the claimants who are living on Universal Credit and the trials and tribulations they all face. Last night episode followed the staff and claimants at Toxteth job centre in liverpool where 45,000 people are already living on Universal Credit. The Job centre is the busiest in the city and manager Gema is under pressure to ensure her staff meet most new claimants every week until they get a job ..but with too few staff and too many claimants it is all just proving to be a bridge too far.
Having recently been made redundant 62 year old Sue struggled with the new system. She had to look for work for 35 hours a week and regularly attend meetings at the Job centre and if not then her benefits could be reduced by a process called a sanction. I actually believe increasing working age for the ladies and olden folk was a wayward decision and watching poor Suesans plight last night who was clearly a grafter albeit a visually and extremely tired grafter, fought on bravely to garnish a multitude of cleaning jobs that would take her out of the U.C. In my opinion she should now be retired and this current work till you drop ethos has to stop. Probably grafted and paid into the system all her working life so it's not a lot to ask that the powers that be remove the old dears saddle allowing her some time for a roll in the hay and garnish a little sunlight on her locks. Again a interesting watch and it's on in thee parts available to catch up. That is all:
I didn't watch the program but do know several people who found themselves out of work, through no fault of their own, after grafting for 50 years. I see them trudging through the rain to get to the nearest job centre 3 miles away to 'prove they've been looking for work. I see them going to minimum wage nightshift jobs and the life slowly draining out of them.
Two Gun Bob
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 11,865
One of your best posts TwoGun.
I didn't watch the program but do know several people who found themselves out of work, through no fault of their own, after grafting for 50 years. I see them trudging through the rain to get to the nearest job centre 3 miles away to 'prove they've been looking for work. I see them going to minimum wage nightshift jobs and the life slowly draining out of them.
A short clip from the three part series here.