Us and them another pension rant

[johnnytapia]

Before you, the private sector got their pensions fucked over by some tosser called Gordon and most public sector workers thought it was wonderful.

So sorry if i've not got much sympathy.

“The public sector thought it was wonderful” - utter, unalloyed horseshit. I work in the public sector and find it incredible the sheer level of venom and vituperation aimed at us from the private sector. As if we’re somewhow working in a different, parallel universe. Private and public alike deserve fair pay, good working conditions and decent pensions. The public sector, in the main, is unionised and thus, better able to defend some of its hard-won rights. I tire of hearing the private sector claiming public sector workers are somehow living in a golden age and are all heading off to huge pensions whilst they get nowt. It’s utter drivel. The private sector should work in conjucntion with public and aim to secure a better future for all.

As for the “Tory wankers” bit from the OP, sadly, it would be the same under any political party. Governments of all shades, in all countries are hard-wired to promote liberal capitalism. And it’s a race to the bottom. The public are hoodwinked into thinking the country can’t afford a decent pension for everyone, can’t afford a bigger National Minimum Wage, yet we can afford to spend TRILLIONS on fighting wars; sending rockets to space and other such so called “necessities”. That’s the real issue. We could easily afford a fairer society, a better future for all etc. But that would go against the liberalist agenda. And there’s too much £ to be lost by giant business and their associated interests (governments, MPs, media, banking) for that ever to happen. Sadly.

 

[snorky]

“The public sector thought it was wonderful” - utter, unalloyed horseshit. I work in the public sector and find it incredible the sheer level of venom and vituperation aimed at us from the private sector. As if we’re somewhow working in a different, parallel universe. Private and public alike deserve fair pay, good working conditions and decent pensions. The public sector, in the main, is unionised and thus, better able to defend some of its hard-won rights. I tire of hearing the private sector claiming public sector workers are somehow living in a golden age and are all heading off to huge pensions whilst they get nowt. It’s utter drivel. The private sector should work in conjucntion with public and aim to secure a better future for all.

As for the “Tory wankers” bit from the OP, sadly, it would be the same under any political party. Governments of all shades, in all countries are hard-wired to promote liberal capitalism. And it’s a race to the bottom. The public are hoodwinked into thinking the country can’t afford a decent pension for everyone, can’t afford a bigger National Minimum Wage, yet we can afford to spend TRILLIONS on fighting wars; sending rockets to space and other such so called “necessities”. That’s the real issue. We could easily afford a fairer society, a better future for all etc. But that would go against the liberalist agenda. And there’s too much £ to be lost by giant business and their associated interests (governments, MPs, media, banking) for that ever to happen. Sadly.

'Kin hell johnny, I reckon the word 'vituperation' is from a parallel universe! :)

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

“The public sector thought it was wonderful” - utter, unalloyed horseshit. I work in the public sector and find it incredible the sheer level of venom and vituperation aimed at us from the private sector. As if we’re somewhow working in a different, parallel universe.

It probably went both ways. I was working as a contractor in the public sector around that time, and the animosity towards us from the public sector staff was unbelievable. Anything deemed as giving us a shafting was met with glee by most of them.

I remember trying to explain to some of them that Gordon's pension grab was bad for everyone, as a lot of the higher paid contractors would just start investing in property now which would likely affect the housing market, but they just laughed it off as sour grapes.
So i did find it amusing in the months to come, when some of these same people were moaning about struggling to get on the housing ladder, or when one got gazumped by a BTL landlord.

But i suppose this is typical of the 'i'm alright Jack' brigade (in both private/public sectors), but in the private sector people try and get on with the shitty hand they've been dealt, but in the public sector they want everyone to rally behind them as its deemed unfair, but they couldn't give a toss when the boot was on the other foot.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

So from your tiny tiny anecdote you generalise to the whole public sector!

Clown.

 

[sir baconface]

I work in the public sector and find it incredible the sheer level of venom and vituperation aimed at us from the private sector. As if we’re somewhow working in a different, parallel universe.

You and I have had this debate before. There are many wonderful people working in the public sector. And there are many who put their own comfort first and spend most of their life (probably including most of the "working day") belly-aching. Whinge, woman, piss and moan. Rinse and repeat.

So many give the appearance of hating their job, their career and their employer. Instead of moving on, they flex their monopolistic muscles and wield the axe of withdrawing labour. Their unions never seem to be proactive or put forward constructive ideas, but instead react defensively and instinctively to any change. And at the higher levels, there's no accountability. Always "lessons learned" when they've committed gross negligence or worse, then back to how they were.

Your own profession - teaching - is a classic example where the moaners rule the roost. And have done since time immemorial.

You reap what you sow.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

So from your tiny tiny anecdote you generalise to the whole public sector!

Clown.

Eh?

So someone can make a generalisation about the whole private sector with a comment like
'I work in the public sector and find it incredible the sheer level of venom and vituperation aimed at us from the private sector'

and thats okay with you, but when i point out that it probably works both ways then i'm a clown lol.

Muppet

 

[Manc in London]

Just out of interest, when you contribute to a public sector pension (and the government contributes also) what actually happens to that money? Is it put into some sort of investment vehicle, or is it actually just put back into general taxation like National Insurance, with the promise that a future government will honour it out of their budget when the time comes to cash it in?

I only know (a little) about the local government pension scheme..... the funds are invested by the authority. Councils have their own treasury manager to carry out this. Some councils have done very well with the funds. A small number, not so. I would expect Berkshire to be in the news in the next few years when they cannot meet their pension liabilities. I don't believe that's common knowledge but someone, who would know about this, told me about it last week.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I only know (a little) about the local government pension scheme..... the funds are invested by the authority. Councils have their own treasury manager to carry out this. Some councils have done very well with the funds. A small number, not so. I would expect Berkshire to be in the news in the next few years when they cannot meet their pension liabilities. I don't believe that's common knowledge but someone, who would know about this, told me about it last week.

Ah, I do remember there was an issue when some councils had fund invested in Iceland when they went bust.

 

[cookster]

how would you feel if your mortgage company said they wanted to you to pay more for your mortgage that you'd already agreed to plus pay it for longer and your house will be worth less?

That happened to a lot of people, me included during the 90's and early 00's. Market conditions change, we all get shafted one way or the other.

 

[johnnytapia]

You and I have had this debate before. There are many wonderful people working in the public sector. And there are many who put their own comfort first and spend most of their life (probably including most of the "working day") belly-aching. Whinge, woman, piss and moan. Rinse and repeat.

So many give the appearance of hating their job, their career and their employer. Instead of moving on, they flex their monopolistic muscles and wield the axe of withdrawing labour. Their unions never seem to be proactive or put forward constructive ideas, but instead react defensively and instinctively to any change. And at the higher levels, there's no accountability. Always "lessons learned" when they've committed gross negligence or worse, then back to how they were.

Your own profession - teaching - is a classic example where the moaners rule the roost. And have done since time immemorial.

You reap what you sow.

The moaners rule the roost in as many other professions as they do in teaching. Everyone, bar, maybe Hugh Heffner, has a whinge now and again about work. Very few died and had the epitaph “I wish I’d worked more hours” placed on the gravestone. I agree about the stance from some unions. My own, the NUT, can sometimes seem to react negatively to any change, for arguing’s sake. But, by and large, I think most unions do a valuable job in holding employers to count. And rightly so. And they act as a vangaurd against some of the rapacious practices that some of the private sector seems to genuflect rather too quickly to. The German model of unions and management working in much greater harmony is one we should aspire to, but it would take a paradigm shift from government and unions alike (I think there’s more willing from the unions on this).

Anyway, it’s half-term, so a night on the vino and a lie-in tomorrow.