Why Is Communism Celebrated By This City?

[Deleted member 77198]

I went to Chetham's Library the other day and sat at the desk where Friederich Engels and Karl Marx came up with their ideas for the Communist Manifesto.

It got me thinking about why Manchester actually celebrates the fact Communism started here (the positive promotion of that little alcove in Chetham's where the two men both sat, the Marx & Engels exhibition currently in the Working Class Movement Library in Salford, the new Engels statue on First Street and the upcoming "Russian October" celebrating the centenary of the Russian Revolution that's taking place in the city for a whole month) when it's arguably been one of the biggest evils ever known to man with over 100 million people murdered by Communist states. I can only think of the Ottamans slaughtering of Indians and also North Africans as a greater example of mass murder of human beings.

Why is it seen in such a positive light in our city? Deaths at the hands of Communism outweighs historical right wing movements by dozens of millions yet right wing ideals like Facism is derided hugely.

If Hitler had come up with the ideas for National Socialism in this city, would we be celebrating his impressive turn around if he German economy when he got into power? We, quite rightly, wouldn't because his crimes far outweigh his positives! So why is Communism not seen in the same light?

 

[Barcon]

No idea.

 

[west didsblue]

Maybe because the principles of real communism (From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs) if implemented properly would lead to a fair just society. Unfortunately, as has been demonstrated in all the countries that have tried to embrace communism, it doesn't actually work in the real world because human nature gets in the way and they all end up with authoritarian governments, suppression of opposition and dictators in charge (i.e. Fascism). So it's not communism that has caused the deaths of 10's of millions of people, it's the fascist implementation of a perversion of it.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I went to Chetham's Library the other day and sat at the desk where Friederich Engels and Karl Marx came up with their ideas for the Communist Manifesto.

It got me thinking about why Manchester actually celebrates the fact Communism started here (the positive promotion of that little alcove in Chetham's where the two men both sat, the Marx & Engels exhibition currently in the Working Class Movement Library in Salford, the new Engels statue on First Street and the upcoming "Russian October" celebrating the centenary of the Russian Revolution that's taking place in the city for a whole month) when it's arguably been one of the biggest evils ever known to man with over 100 million people murdered by Communist states. I can only think of the Ottamans slaughtering of Indians and also North Africans as a greater example of mass murder of human beings.

Why is it seen in such a positive light in our city? Deaths at the hands of Communism outweighs historical right wing movements by dozens of millions yet right wing ideals like Facism is derided hugely.

If Hitler had come up with the ideas for National Socialism in this city, would we be celebrating his impressive turn around if he German economy when he got into power? We, quite rightly, wouldn't because his crimes far outweigh his positives! So why is Communism not seen in the same light?

Go away and read what they both actually wrote then come back and tell us what you disagree with.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Go away and read what they both actually wrote then come back and tell us what you disagree with.

Does it not occur, that even in its unadulterated form, communism is contrary to many people's views about how society should be organised? Why do you assume (as your post suggests you do) that merely reading Marx and Engels' works will simply convert someone to a different way of thinking. Human beings rarely operate in that way.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Go away and read what they both actually wrote then come back and tell us what you disagree with.

I did indeed talk about Marx and Engels but not just those two. Manchester is dedicating a whole month this year to the Bolsheviks, who systematically slaughtered tens of millions of people, with "Russian October".

I'm just wondering why Manchester celebrates Communism without a thought for the consequences seen at the hands of it. Not so much whether Marx and Engels were right or not.

 

[worsleyweb]

Because we are becoming a town full of fannies.

 

[Ban-jani]

Because whilst I live in Manchester and love the place, it's a city far too much to the left politically - in my opinion of course.

The place is full of champagne socialists these days, such as my old housemate, who has a picture of Marx on his wall whilst he collects a £65k salary plus Audi and goes away to capitalist countries four times a year on holiday.

The city is very liberal which is fantastic but what I'm trying to say is there's too many people who think being liberal has to go hand-in-hand with socialism, which it obviously doesn't.

That said Marx and Engels had great intentions and because communism never worked, to compare them to National Socialists or Fascists is ridiculous. The whole idea was about freeing those who had fallen victim to opportunist (near) slave drivers and The Nazi's, for example, started out purposely to victimise (and later murder).

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Maybe because the principles of real communism (From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs) if implemented properly would lead to a fair just society. Unfortunately, as has been demonstrated in all the countries that have tried to embrace communism, it doesn't actually work in the real world because human nature gets in the way and they all end up with authoritarian governments, suppression of opposition and dictators in charge (i.e. Fascism). So it's not communism that has caused the deaths of 10's of millions of people, it's the fascist implementation of a perversion of it.

One could just as easily site fascism as benign, but it's tenets were corrupted by exactly the same reasons. It advocates
similar solutions by autocratic rule by dictator and control of the economy. Germany, in contrast with all the rest of
Europe in the 1930's had virtual full employment, a far higher standard of living, and a population that
embraced this philosophy, as their lives were enormously transformed by this system.
Then the flaws crawl to the surface, it actively encourages racism, military expansion, and will certainly
implode, as does communism.
I've often heard communists saying that the results of it's inevitable horrors are because 'Real communism has
never been implemented,' well it has, it contains the same recipe for eventual disaster as fascism does, and indeed has
caused more deaths and poverty than any other philosophy.

 

[Metal Biker]

When referring to Marx why does nobody mention the man himself? He came from a wealthy, middle class background, wasn't a good student at school but his family 'status' kept him afloat in his early adult life, was notorious for being unable to keep records of his accounts losing him most of his borrowed wealth, was bankrolled by his wealthy friend Frederick Engels, married into wealth, viewed work as being "beneath him" and spent the latter years in relative poverty with his wife and seven children having been exiled in London.

Sounds to me more like a rich man who rallied against the world for having money after losing his own money, none of it he ever earned himself. Not exactly a man whose ideals i'd adhere to, especially when you consider they were borne from scorne at his own situation rather than his experiences with the collective poor of society as is often attributed.