Yet More Tensions in the States...

[aguero93:20]

Are you a moron? I'm done with you, mate.

I'm starting to think you are. Cheerio.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Not all police! Bigga, in the same way; not all Muslims!

See, that was easy wasn't it mate?

Now we can all go about our merry lives.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Failure to use a turn signal is technically an arrestable offense in Texas. LEGAL FACT.

During a traffic stop, a police officer has the right to ask a driver to get out of the car even for a non-arrestable offense, as a way of securing his own safety. The officer has almost complete discretion and the driver is legally obligated to get out when asked. LEGAL FACT.

Use of force against a citizen is allowed when an officer is arresting someone, but it should be proportional to the circumstance. LEGAL FACT.

“While they are forcefully holding her down, I don’t think a judge would see that restraint as disproportionate physical force against Ms. Bland,” Ms. Roth said. (LEGAL OPINION OF A LAW PROFESSOR from the most liberal university in the United States.)

In the arrest affidavit, Trooper Encinia described Ms. Bland as “combative and uncooperative” and said she had begun swinging at him with her elbows after she was removed from the car, handcuffed and forcibly subdued. FACT.

The end.

 

[aguero93:20]

He's been removed from any duty involving dealings with the public for violating arrest procedure. Not suspicion of violating arrest procedure, not pending an investigation. He did violate arrest procedure. FACT.

 

[andyhinch]

He's been removed from any duty involving dealings with the public for violating arrest procedure. Not suspicion of violating arrest procedure, not pending an investigation. He did violate arrest procedure. FACT.

Probably because it's Texas and he didn't shoot her :)

 

[Bigga]

As I said, Aguero......!

Life is hard, eh, especially when I even lead you to the water.

Let's see what happens to him AFTER he has been on Admin leave...which, btw, is very, very normal in these high profile cases where multiple agencies are investigating the outcome.

Like many on here, you seem all hot and bothered about things about which you know very little, all because you think he wasn't nice to her. Good luck with that. She could have been arrested for the traffic violation, then for not getting out of the car, and then for resisting, and then for actual physical resisting....pick your poison! Lots of greys being painted black and white here. More of that will happen when specific authorities start covering their arses. Such is the life of an on the spot law enforcement officer. Had he been shot while he leaned into the car, what would everyone have said then? How would that have shaped the conversation? He wouldn't be the first! Did you watch the police videos I posted earlier? Officer walks up to a car, bends down to the window and shot in the head, left for dead on the side of the highway. Happens more than you imagine.

That's all I'm saying.....look at it from BOTH SIDES, as I have. SHE starts the escalation, but HE determines where it leads from there. Would I have done the same? As I've said ad infinitum, probably not, but I wasn't there. Did she EVER succumb to his authority or provide him with the excuse to let her drive away? I'm not sure she did, and SHE was acting up.

Read whatever you want into the case, the videos and what I have said. Really, I'm done. Have no time for arguing about nothing with people who are speaking purely from emotion and then quoting shit I gave them!!! Did you think I didn't read it first? And, EXCELLENT cherry picking from that article!!

Carry on....

But, Aguero 93 is absolutely correct. In fact, that is even underlined by the Supreme Court's viewpoint of extensive routine traffic stopping! Read 'Rodriguez vs The United States'! There would have to be an additional safety concern or suspicion of further crime to stop her that long!

You are right when you say it should have been a 2/ 3 minute ticketing. The cigarette incident is something he decides on. By law, she doesn't HAVE to put out the cig unless it is interfering with his ability to do his job. It is not, clearly and it is not law that she should do unless he thinks it's being used to cover something else.

Gonna post some of the convo:

"State Trooper Brian Encinia: Hello ma’am. We’re the Texas Highway Patrol and the reason for your stop is because you failed to signal the lane change. Do you have your driver’s license and registration with you? What’s wrong? How long have you been in Texas?

Sandra Bland: Got here just today.

Encinia: OK. Do you have a driver’s license? (Pause) OK, where you headed to now? Give me a few minutes.

(Bland inaudible)

(Encinia returns to his car for several minutes, then approaches Bland again.)

Encinia: OK, ma’am. (Pause.) You OK?

Bland: I’m waiting on you. This is your job. I’m waiting on you. When’re you going to let me go?

Encinia: I don’t know, you seem very really irritated.

Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it’s crap what I’m getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesn’t stop you from giving me a ticket, so [inaudible] ticket.

Encinia: Are you done?

Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.

Encinia: OK.

Bland: So now I’m done, yeah.

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don’t mind?

Bland: I’m in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

Bland: I don’t have to step out of my car.

Encinia: Step out of the car.

Bland: Why am I …

Encinia: Step out of the car!

Bland: No, you don’t have the right. No, you don’t have the right.

Encinia: Step out of the car.

Bland: You do not have the right. You do not have the right to do this.

Encinia: I do have the right, now step out or I will remove you.

Bland: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself. [crosstalk] I am getting removed for a failure to signal?

Encinia: Step out or I will remove you. I’m giving you a lawful order.

Get out of the car now or I’m going to remove you.

Bland: And I’m calling my lawyer.

Encinia: I’m going to yank you out of here. (Reaches inside the car.)

Bland: OK, you’re going to yank me out of my car? OK, alright.

Encinia (calling in backup): 2547.

Bland: Let’s do this.

Encinia: Yeah, we’re going to. (Grabs for Bland.)

Bland: Don’t touch me!

Encinia: Get out of the car!

Bland: Don’t touch me. Don’t touch me! I’m not under arrest — you don’t have the right to take me out of the car.

Encinia: You are under arrest!

Bland: I’m under arrest? For what? For what? For what?

Encinia (to dispatch): 2547 county fm 1098 (inaudible) send me another unit. (To Bland) Get out of the car! Get out of the car now!

Bland: Why am I being apprehended? You’re trying to give me a ticket for failure …

Encinia: I said get out of the car!

Bland: Why am I being apprehended? You just opened my —

Encinia: I‘m giving you a lawful order. I’m going to drag you out of here.

Bland: So you’re threatening to drag me out of my own car?

Encinia: Get out of the car!

Bland: And then you’re going to [crosstalk] me?

Encinia: I will light you up! Get out! Now! (Draws stun gun and points it at Bland.)

Bland: Wow. Wow. (Bland exits car.)

Encinia: Get out. Now. Get out of the car!

Bland: For a failure to signal? You’re doing all of this for a failure to signal?

Encinia: Get over there.

Bland: Right. yeah, lets take this to court, let’s do this.

Encinia: Go ahead.

Bland: For a failure to signal? Yup, for a failure to signal!

Encinia: Get off the phone!

Bland: (crosstalk)

Encinia: Get off the phone! Put your phone down!

Bland: I’m not on the phone. I have a right to record. This is my property. Sir?

Encinia: Put your phone down right now. Put your phone down!

(Bland slams phone down on her trunk.)

Bland: For a fucking failure to signal. My goodness. Y’all are interesting. Very interesting.

Encinia: Come over here. Come over here now.

Bland: You feelin’ good about yourself?

Encinia: Stand right here. Stand right there.

Bland: You feelin’ good about yourself? For a failure to signal? You feel real good about yourself don’t you? You feel good about yourself don’t you?

Encinia: Turn around. Turn around. Turn around now. Put your hands behind your back.

Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Encinia: Turn around …

Bland: Why can’t you …

Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. I will tell you.

Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Encinia: Turn around!

Bland: Why won’t you tell me that part?

Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. Turn around …

Bland: Why will you not tell me what’s going on?

Encinia: You are not complying.

Bland: I’m not complying ’cause you just pulled me out of my car.

Encinia: Turn around.

Bland: Are you fucking kidding me? This is some bull…

Encinia: Put your hands behind your back.

Bland: ‘Cause you know this straight bullshit. And you’re full of shit. Full of straight shit. That’s all y’all are is some straight scared cops. South Carolina got y’all woman asses scared. That’s all it is. Fucking scared of a female.

Encinia: If you would’ve just listened.

Bland: I was trying to sign the fucking ticket — whatever."

Do you not think he was aggressive? How many times does she ask the reason for arrest and she's ignored?

Not all police! Bigga, in the same way; not all Muslims!

See, that was easy wasn't it mate?

Now we can all go about our merry lives.

At no point did I say "all police", just this jerk.

 

[malg]

Having read a few of your posts under this thread, dismay you don't have any clue what you are saying and most of your statements are more questions that facts! Lots of conjecture with nothing to back it up. As I said in a previous post, policing is different in different places, just as walking down a street is different at different times and locations.

You're a stupid **** and you have no clue what you're talking about.

I'm not having a dig at Chicago (I agree with some of his points on here), but your reply made me giggle. The simplest ones are often the funniest.

 

[aguero93:20]

Probably because it's Texas and he didn't shoot her :)

That may be so but the quoted official hasn't left any room for doubt that he has in fact violated arrest procedure. I presume it was restraining and handcuffing somebody who didn't pose any obvious threat without ever warning them they could be arrested, then failing to inform them that they were under arrest and then violating their rights under the US constitution by failing to read them their rights. But then again I'm not an American, I can just read.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Have you seen police training in the States? They're taught to assume the worst in absolutely every situation. Almost any sudden movement is taught as being life-threatening. And then they're surprised when routine traffic stops regularly escalate into fatal situations and there's no trust between the people and the cops. Add to that the fact that it's legal to carry a gun in the States and you have police officers who are told to fear members of the public, given guns and in some cases military equipment, and told to go out into the city where it's perfectly legal to carry firearms and make judgements about which of the people carrying them (or not as the case may be) constitute a threat. It's basically an impossible job, even if you aren't some sort of power mad racist. And who do they get to do this job? Well some departments actually refuse to hire candidates that score too highly on an IQ test.

And that's before you even start to talk about the fucked up legal system in that country. I mean compare what is said to a suspect in the UK:

“You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

to the same speech in the USA:

"You have the right to remain silent when questioned. Anything you say or do may be used against you in a court of law."

"May be used against you." The police work for the prosecution from the start. When you're interviewed, the police can only present evidence against you in court. In the UK, your interview can be used in your defence. It's why this lawyer advises everyone in America to never speak to the police.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I'm not having a dig at Chicago (I agree with some of his points on here), but your reply made me giggle. The simplest ones are often the funniest.

Actually, it made me laugh, too, but maybe more AT him than WITH him!

"Stupid ****" is always a crowd pleaser, especially when a known one uses it against someone else! ;-)

Never a dull moment on here, is there?!