JM Mcr wrote:
Mad Eyed Screamer wrote:
Can anyone define ''world class'' please?
How many ''world class'' players are there currently? (Surely there can only be one for each position?)
I find the term ''world class' is used so often (like the term ''legend'') that it's true meaning is very much devalued (I recall a Charlton fan on Ceefax's sports letters page describing Paul Koncheski as world class....)
So, take away Pele, Cryuff, Maradonna, Eusabio, Messi, George Best (maybe, maybe not, never got to show it at international stage), Puskas and who else??? George Weah?? - who are are we left with who was / is truly outstanding?
So how many clubs in total have developed a ''world class'' player? Not very many, so I've no worries on City not producing one (yet)
Those players are the world's best but I usually think of world class as players who aren't out of their depth on the International stage or would be able to hold their own in any league in the world. Maybe a better term for my interpretation is International class...
Certainly if you stick to the types of player mentioned above there have been very few world class players. I'd possibly add Zidane, Figo, both Ronaldos, Gullit and Beckenbauer to MES's list but can't think of any more of the top of my head..
here's a list off the top of somebody else's head
The full list
Ranking Player A I C Overall Main nationality Span
100 Danny Blanchflower 76 74 75 75 Northern Ireland 1949-61
99 Jozsef Bozsik 77 78 70 75 Hungarian 1943-62
98 Just Fontaine 79 76 70 75 French 1950-62
97 Elias Figueroa 80 76 69 75 Chilean 1964-82
96 Josef Masopust 81 79 65 75 Czechoslovakian 1950-70
95 Karl-Heinz Schnellinger 78 73 74 75 German 1959-75
94 Johnny Rep 78 76 72 75.3 Dutch 1971-87
93 Daniel Passarella 76 76 74 75.3 Argentine 1971-89
92 Marcel Desailly 76 76 74 75.3 French 1986-2006
91 Enzo Francescoli 85 71 71 75.6 Uruguayan 1980-97
90 Grzegorz Lato 80 77 68 76.6 Polish 1966-84
89 Antonio Cabrini 75 76 76 75.6 Italian 1973-91
88 Jose Santamaria 82 65 80 75.6 Uruguayan 1948-66
87 Zoltan Czibor 80 74 73 75.6 Hungarian 1942-65
86 Dino Zoff 77 75 75 75.6 Italian 1961-83
85 Luis Figo 83 72 73 76 Portuguese 1989-2009
84 Fabio Cannavaro 81 78 69 76 Italian 1992-2011
83 Fernando Redondo 81 70 77 76 Argentine 1985-2004
82 Roy Keane 76 76 76 76 Irish 1989-2006
81 Djalma Santos 81 76 71 76 Brazilian 1948-70
80 Matthias Sammer 81 72 77 76.3 German 1985-98
79 Velibor Vasovic 82 65 82 76.3 Serbian 1958-71
78 Armando Picchi 83 64 82 76.3 Italian 1954-69
77 David Villa 80 77 73 76.6 Spanish 1999-
76 Dixie Dean 80 75 75 76.6 English 1923-39
75 Kurt Hamrin 80 75 75 76.6 Swedish 1952-72
74 Nils Liedholm 81 75 75 77 Swedish 1938-61
73 Marco Tardelli 78 77 76 77 Italian 1972-88
72 Jimmy Johnstone 85 65 81 77 Scottish 1961-79
71 Iker Casillas 77 80 75 77.3 Spanish 1998-
70 Thierry Henry 85 73 74 77.3 French 1994-
69 Ladislao Kubala 90 61 81 77.3 Hungarian 1944-67
68 Frank Rijkaard 77 75 80 77.3 Dutch 1980-95
67 John Charles 80 76 76 77.3 Welsh 1948-74
66 Arie Haan 77 80 75 77.3 Dutch 1969-85
65 Roberto Baggio 88 75 70 77.6 Italian 1982-2004
64 Samuel Eto’o 80 70 83 77.6 Cameroonian 1997-
63 Omar Sivori 85 70 78 77.6 Argentine 1954-69
62 Juan Schiaffino 77 80 75 77.6 Uruguayan 1943-62
61 Bobby Moore 85 80 67 77.6 English 1958-77
60 Peter Schmeichel 81 74 79 78 Danish 1981-2003
59 Ruud Krol 81 76 77 78 Dutch 1968-80
58 Kenny Dalglish 83 65 86 78 Scottish 1969-90
57 Ruud Gullit 81 75 78 78 Dutch 1979-98
56 Sandro Mazzola 80 75 80 78.3 Italian 1960-77
55 Francisco Gento 80 67 88 78.3 Spanish 1952-71
54 Vava 80 80 75 78.3 Brazilian 1949-69
53 Roberto Rivelino 90 80 65 78.3 Brazilian 1965-81
52 Paolo Maldini 80 75 80 78.3 Italian 1984-2009
51 Michael Laudrup 88 70 77 78.3 Danish 1981-98
50 Raymond Kopa 87 77 72 78.6 French 1949-67
49 Luis Monti 76 80 80 78.6 Argentine 1921-39
48 Mattias Sindelar 85 80 71 78.6 Austrian 1924-39
47 Valentino Mazzola 88 60 88 78.6 Italian 1939-49
46 Sepp Maier 80 80 76 78.6 German 1962-79
45 Bobby Charlton 80 76 80 79 English 1956-76
44 Gunter Netzer 85 77 75 79 German 1963-77
43 Nilton Santos 82 85 70 79 Brazilian 1948-64
42 Tarcisio Burgnich 81 76 81 79.3 Italian 1958-77
41 Sandor Kocsis 82 80 76 79.3 Hungarian 1943-65
40 Lothar Matthaus 80 80 78 79.3 German 1979-2000
39 Ronaldinho 90 74 74 79.3 Brazilian 1998-
38 Jose Manuel Moreno 81 80 77 79.3 Argentine 1935-61
37 Romario 88 77 73 79.6 Brazilian 1985-2009
36 Mario Coluna 85 75 80 80 Portuguese 1954-72
35 Gerson 84 80 76 80 Brazilian 1959-74
34 Hristo Stoichkov 80 80 80 80 Bulgarian 1981-2003
33 Paul Breitner 81 81 78 80 German 1970-83
32 Luis Suarez 82 73 85 80 Spanish 1953-73
31 Gaetano Scirea 80 80 80 80 Italian 1972-88
30 Andres Iniesta 81 80 80 80.3 Spanish 2001-
29 Tostao 86 80 75 80.3 Brazilian 1962-73
28 Giacinto Facchetti 80 80 81 80.3 Italian 1960-78
27 Lev Yashin 84 80 78 80.6 Russian 1950-70
26 Zico 90 72 80 80.6 Brazilian 1971-94
25 Rivaldo 90 80 72 80.6 Brazilian 1991-
24 Marco van Basten 87 75 80 80.6 Dutch 1982-95
23 Jairzinho 86 81 75 80.6 Brazilian 1959-82
22 Xavi 80 80 82 80.6 Spanish 1997-
21 Nandor Hidegkuti 87 80 75 80.6 Hungarian 1942-58
20 Gerd Muller 82 81 80 81 German 1963-81
19 Johan Neeskens 83 80 80 81 Dutch 1968-85
18 Ronaldo 92 80 71 81 Brazilian 1993-2011
17 Obdulio Varela 85 83 75 81 Uruguayan 1936-55
16 George Best 94 68 81 81 Nothern Irish 1963-81
15 Carlos Alberto 88 81 75 81.3 Brazilian 1963-82
14 Franco Baresi 89 72 84 81.6 Italian 1977-97
13 Eusebio 89 78 79 82 Portuguese 1957-79
12 Didi 90 81 75 82 Brazilian 1946-66
11 Michel Platini 90 82 75 82.3 France 1972-87
10 Giuseppe Meazza 89 90 70 83 Italian 1927-47
9 Zinedine Zidane 92 80 77 83 French 1988-2006
8 Leo Messi 97 63 91 83.6 Argentine 2005-
7 Ferenc Puskas 88 82 83 84.3 Hungarian 1943-66
6 Garrincha 92 90 72 84.6 Brazilian 1953-72
5 Franz Beckenbauer 90 82 82 84.6 German 1964-82
4 Alfredo Di Stefano 95 63 98 85.6 Argentine 1945-66
3 Johan Cruyff 97 80 86 87.6 Dutch 1964-84
2 Pele 99 84 81 88 Brazilian 1956-77
1 Diego Maradona 100 90 79 89.6 Argentine 1976-97
http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the ... l-time/15/Players who missed out most narrowly
Gabriel Batistuta
Zgibniew Boniek
Andreas Brehme
Cafu
Arsenio Erico
Gunnar Gren
Ghoerge Hagi
Uli Hoeness
Wolfgan Overath
Mario Kempes
Jurgen Klinsmann
Ronald Koeman
Hector Rial
Gianni Rivera
Alberto Spencer
Wesley Sneijder
Socrates
Zizinho
Explanations
Gabriel Batistuta
Why he missed out Only did so by a whisker because of the fact his goals never quite translated into true glory.
Jim Baxter
Why he missed out So gifted. But the elite stages of the game never got to really see it.
Dennis Bergkamp
Why he missed out A player blessed with the very best technique. Unfortunately, he only ever applied it in instalments at the top level. Beyond that supreme quarter-final against Argentina in 1998, his performances in the top international tournaments and Champions League were at best moderate when placed in the context of his exact qualities. As Johnny Rep argued, “he lacks the hardness to win. Bergkamp is a very big player but he doesn’t have the character in his body.”
Zgibniew Boniek
Why he missed out another player to miss out narrowly, his performances in the domestic Italian league only slightly costing him.
Eric Cantona
Why he missed out Undoubtedly transformed the history of Manchester United. But was unfortunate to never be able to bring his best form to Europe nor play at a more opportune time for the French national side. As such, only really enjoyed domestic success in a league that was one of Europe’s most mediocre at the time.
Duncan Edwards
Why he missed out Unfortunately, all of his wondrous ability can only leave us pondering what-ifs
Steven Gerrard
Why he missed out A player of top-class talents but not necessarily top-class positioning or team discipline. Throughout his career there seemed an eternal debate about where his best role was. Because of that, he only ever exerted maximum influence on the 2004-05 and 2008-09 seasons and never an international tournament.
Kaka
Why he missed out the best player in the world between 2005 and 2007 but that period proved all too brief as injuries took their toll.
Denis Law
Why he missed out Injury robbed him of Manchester United’s crowning glory in 1968 and, like Kenny Dalglish, never fully applied his ability at the top international level.
Luigi Riva
Why he missed out Hugely productive but not quite prolific enough to match the very, very elite strikers.
Cristiano Ronaldo
Why he missed out highly likely to be in the top half of this list by the end of his career – or possibly the next year. But, as it stands, his exceptional abilities are offset by a selfishness that can prove a liability at the top level. It’s no coincidence that Alex Ferguson’s facilitation of that ego brought the only major trophies of his career.
Hugo Sanchez
Why he missed out Could never bring his club record to the international stage
Paul Scholes
Why he missed out Supremely consistent for Manchester United and occasionally supreme, he did suffer a prolonged dip relative to his abilities between 2003 and 2006 and – for a variety of reasons – never quite translated his true qualities to the international stage.
Andriy Shevchenko
Why he missed out Played in a Milan team that only won trophies intermittently and faded out too soon.
Wesley Sneijder
Why he missed out only belatedly and briefly applied his true ability at Inter having struggled to find proper accommodation at Real Madrid.
Socrates
Why he missed out A sumptuous player. But decorated tournaments rather than actually decide them.
Sjaak Swaart
Why he missed out A victim of timing. Just missed out on his club and country’s glory years.
George Weah
Why he missed out A surprisingly underwhelming trophy cabinet for such overwhelming ability.
Other notable names on the fringes
Altafini
Arthur Friedenreich
Rafael Moreno Aranzadi
Raul
Andrea Pirlo
Bruno Conti
Rui Costa
Bebeto
Miodrag Belodedici
Laurent Blanc
Eder
Oleg Blokhin
Alessandro Del Piero
Luis Del Sol
Didier Deschamps
Robert Prosinecki
Roberto Bettega
Kazimierz Deyna
Ryan Giggs
Piet Keizer
Rob Rensenbrink
Jari Litmanen
Abedi Pele
Teofilio Cubillas
Bryan Robson
Jimmy Greaves
Charlie Athersmith
Billy Liddell
Billy Meredith
Igor Belanov
Stankley Matthews
Gordon Banks
Claude Makelele
Pat Jennings
Ivan Curkovic
Adolfo Pedernera
Domenique Rocheteau
Paolo Rossi
Pepe Samitier
Graeme Souness
Bernd Schuster
Uwe Seeler
Lilian Thuram
Valery Voronin
Fritz Walter
Ricardo Zamora
Paul McGrath
Coen Moulijn
Allen Simonsen
John Giles
Kevin Keegan
Jose Zarraga
Phil Neal
Jean-Pierre Papin
No Colin Bell anywhere - poor
lets hope in 5/10 years time there will be some one on the list who started as a junior at city and went all the way with city and internationals
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