Interesting opinion, and one I've heard from many non-Leipzigers. I've lived in Leipzig for 9 years and seen both VfB and Sachsen disappear. RB has been like a breath of fresh air in a city sadly lacking in decent football; a club without hooligans, neo-Nazis or racists which encourages families and children to attend games.
RB has been good for Leipzig. Whether the club (and the idea of firms owning clubs) will be good for German football remains to be seen.

can you explain why Hamburg are bad this year but Stuttgart are ok again?

The way political radicalists and hooligans have taken control over the two Leipzig clubs is disgusting, you are right. I understand that people are sick of it. I would not like to go to a football match with kids, where fans are singing the "tube song" and things like that.

But still: The way Red Bull tried to bring in their company logo as the new club badge, their name as the club name (both was not allowed). Am i right, i think, they still have only 7 club members, a clever way to make a joke of the investors rule in german football.

This all shows, that this is more than normal football sponsoring. And the idea of them being successful and other global companies following the example is what makes football fans outside Leipzig worry.

-- Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:16 am --



HSV had so many different coaches in the last years. The real trouble started, when Martin Jol left them overnight in 2009. Just a short time later the team manager was sacked as a result of infighting within the management. The following season they had no real team manager at all (who in german football is responsible for the transfers). This season they tried to make a complete restart with Frank Arnesen as team manager and many new players. Sadly they had missed the chance of sacking their coach, who had been a failure already in the last season, so their first matches had been a disaster. Now with former Bayern player Thorsten Fink in charge, i am sure, they will leave the relegation zone soon. They had two wins and four draws from the last six matches.

Stuttgart is one of this typical german rollercoaster teams. Not able to play on higher lever for a longer period.

Hamburg - actually has always had the best opportunities to compete with Bayern head to head. Has been constantly in the Bundesliga since the beginning as only team, has a huge fanbase in the second biggest city of Germany (after Berlin - Munich is third).

But - they never had a constant management, too much different people in the club lead wanted to shine...

Excellent and very interesting thread. Would really appreciate more updates in latest round of matches.

Bayern München is back on top of the Bundesliga with an easy 4-1 over an overrated SV Werder, that could again not deliver against a big team. It was Rib & Rob day doing the "robbery", with Arjen Robben gaining some confidence after his long injury by scoring two penalties. Franck Ribery did the rest.
Bayern is back on top, because the two Borussias (Gladbach and Dortmund) draw (1-1). Without an injured Marco Reus it wasn´t the much expected clash of the young stars Reus and Mario Götze (who was under control by the Gladbach defence most of the match)

Top of the Bundesliga

1. Bayern München 31 CL
2. Borussia Dortmund 30 CL
3. Borussia M´gladbach 30 CL
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4. Schalke 04 28 CLQ
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5. Werder Bremen 26 EL
6. Bayer Leverkusen 25 EL
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7. VfB Stuttgart 22


Bottom

15 1.FC Nürnberg 15
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16. 1. FC Kaiserslautern 14 Rel. Play-off
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17. SC Freiburg 13 Relegation
18 FC Augsburg 11 Relegation

top scorers

1. Huntelaar (Schalke) 13
2. Gomez (Bayern) 13
3. Pizarro (Bremen) 11
4. Podolski (Köln) 11
5. Lewandowski (Dortmund) 10
6. Reus (Gladbach) 10



In other news: Bundesliga 2 side Union Berlin is selling the majority of shares in their stadium „Alte Försterei“ (the old forester´s house) to the fans. The advert campaign slogan: We sell our soul, but not to everyone (showing pictures of Sepp Blatter and other evils of modern football).

Lewandowski scoring goals, that's nice to see.

your 2nd line proves Germans still don't have a sense of humour ;).

you mean that "Rib & Rob" and "robbery" thing? That are the nicknames german media gave them, when they play together (which rarely happens)

Hey Ruhr,

Thanks very much for these updates; always enjoy hearing about other leagues from those that know about them! What do you think about the Goetze to Arsenal transfer rumours?

Goetze´s father is a professor at Dortmund university. It´s reported that Goetze is still hanging around with his old schoolmates.The whole family seem to be very down to earth and keep some distance to the usual football madness. And Dortmund is looking for sponsorship deals to offer him more money.

Himself he does not comment any of these rumours. He would like to play CL in the coming years, that´s all he says. But that is more likely to happen with BVB than Arsenal :-), i guess.

BVB is not in need of money. They may keep him until 2013 (contract ends in 2014). Dortmund just signed 17 year old german future prospect Leon Bittencourt and they are after german U 21 talent Maximilian Beister. They are on long-term strategy to challenge Bayern and Goetze is a part of this